Original Message:
Be careful about taking advice from the Timeshare Users Group (TUG) (by Susan B.):
"A few of your points aren't true. If anyone comes on any of the forums saying they just bought from the developer, whether they say they are happy as a clam with their new purchase,..."
You will notice I specifically referenced the responses that are usually given to a DISSATISFIED buyer. I was talking about unhappy buyers that are past the rescission period. I see from your post that I failed to make that clear. Thank you for pointing it out. I have edited my original post for clarity.
" Another option is also almost always mentioned. To contact the developer and see if there is any way to offer a deed in lieu of foreclosure or to try to negotiate to see if they will take back the deed. "
You are describing a SURRENDER. Whether you do it yourself by contacting the developer directly or you pay someone else to do it, it is still a surrender.
"Unfortunately the timeshare is ripe with more than one timeshare attorney, advocate, or other groups promising to donate the timeshare, sell the timeshare, or take back the timeshare. Many are quick to say they don't charge anything upfront but that turns out to be another lie."
There are bad people in every profession and every walk of life. I'm not going to neglect my health because there are bad doctors out there. I will not refuse to get in a car because there are bad drivers,, avoid all schools and churches because of the stories we've heard about people in those professions. The fact is most people that settle with a TS probably don't bother going on line to recommend their attorney. But if someone is willing to make a recommendation, I do think the average forum reader would at least like to hear what they have to say. Unconfirmed recommendations are better than nothing because they at least direct people to attorneys that are interested in TS cases. Over 20 years TUG could easily have put those recommendations in a separate forum. People could have posted their own experience with each attorney. To avoid posts from shills maybe a trusted forum regular would volunteer to check out the recommendations by working with the poster. I've run quite a few forums and I have never had any problem getting volunteers to take on new projects.
"There is no developer bias on TUG. More than 90% of the active members will say never under any circumstances buy anything from the developer, any developer. The 10% who don't will be very quick to say that there is only a very few specific circumstances where a developer purchase would make any sense."
Of course they discourage buying from developers. TUG is in the RESALE business, lol. TUG very clearly has a desire to discourage people from even consulting with attorneys. Maybe it is not about helping developers. Maybe it is about the fact that people who get an attorney, will have no need to try and sell their TS. I don't know. All I know is there are an awful lot of people that ask for attorney recommendations. TUG will not allow anyone to answer them. That policy stinks like a week old dead fish. It does not help consumer's in any way so it is obviously something done to benefit the TUG owners.
As I've said before, TUG has no obligation to provide any particular services to the public. Except that they do claim to be there to HELP CONSUMERS. You don't help consumers by telling that that no matter what the seller did to them, they have no legal recourse. That is preposterous. You don't help consumers by encouraging them to solve their problem by walking away from tens of thousands of dollars.
"... if someone comes to you and says they spent thousands buying something that they really didn't research or understand and signed a legally binding contract to make the purchase and had a period to get out of it but did not take advantage of it but now realize it was a big mistake but they have no proof of fraud but want out- what would your advice be?"
One of the worst things I've seen on TUG is the "blame the victim" responses. Perhaps those who regularly feel the need to do that are reps of the TS developers. Or maybe the are just ignorant about the facts. The average citizen is not equipped to defend against a psychological assault. The sales tactics are based on scientific knowledge of how to break down and manipulate humans. The reason the "presentation" takes so long is that it takes TIME to manipulate someone. The majority of victims I've met tell me they just didn't want to offend the salesperson by getting tough with him. These people are too nice for their own good but I can't see faulting them for that.
That legally binding contract that responsible buyers should closely examine? In order to know exactly what the purchase involves, you need to read about 100 pages of documents related to the sale. The contract itself is far from user friendly. I would not expect a non-lawyer to pick up on the nuances that reveal the truth about the purchase. Even an experienced contract lawyer needs over four hours to carefully review the documents and THAT is assuming he already has a basic understanding of timeshares. The salesperson gains the buyer's trust and purports to explain all of the material facts the buyer needs to know. The buyer avoids the overwhelming task of reading the contract because he is certain his trusted salesperson accurately summarized it for him. This is a perfect example of psychological manipulation.
"Maybe if you actually had that list and that website where the reviews could be verified but you don't..."
Maybe if I had the site up...what would happen? I'm not sure where you are going with that statement. It is going to take me quite a bit of time to find and vet suitable attorneys. I'll get it done eventually. The thing is, over 20 years there have to have been people that GAVE TUG the information. They could easily have created a list of attorneys that were recommended by their users. They allow the users to give out every other kind of advice so why can't they share the happy news that they found a good attorney?
" This makes it almost impossible to verify anything"
It is true that all settlements include a non-disclosure clause. The plaintiff or his lawyer are free to say that they reached a satisfactory agreement with the TS, they are only prohibited from sharing the details. I don't think it would be that hard to verify the basic facts about each of the posters that were trying to leave a reference. And anyone on the list that turns out to be less than satisfactory would be exposed pretty quickly.
"I think TUG just doesn't want to be seen as endorsing something without proof."
No one asked TUG to endorse anything. They simply include a disclaimer advising people that they cannot endorse any of the attorneys. Realistically, over time some attorneys would earn the trust of the TUG owners and certainly that could have occurred long ago on that site.
" If you could show multiple legal, verified settlements, TUG might reverse its stance."
What stance is that? They have a rule against soliciting so I wouldn't expect them to let an attorney actually solicit there. Then again, they only enforce the no solicitation policy when it serves their agenda. Numerous people regularly includes links to other websites in their TUG posts.
Further, I was not "soliciting" according to their own definition of that activity. I was asking ON TOPIC questions which the visitors there, all of whom I assume are adults, were free to answer or ignore. Some of my questions have probably never been raised there (unless the posters that raised those questions met the same fate as I, lol) and would have made for interesting, FRESH discussion. How was that hurting anyone or interfering in TUG's business in any way? The fact is, TUG did not like the questions I was raising. They don't like the message I am trying to spread because it is contrary to the myth they have worked very hard to perpetuate. There ARE good attorneys that can help people get out of a timeshare contract, WITH A REFUND, and will do so for a lot less than the average surrender company charges the victim to get raped a second time. NO timeshare owner should be settling for a surrender.
Although I disagree with most of your points, I doI appreciate your thoughtful feedback.