Ripoff - Marriott Vacation Club Destinations Program - New Point System

Paul--

Just to let you know, I went to school when I joined this blog! In addition to the ones you've mentioned, g333s was especially helpful to me! He explained things so clearly that I finally was able to grasp how this program really works. My thanks to all of you!

Sad to say, there is a LOT of misinformation out there--and REALLY sad to sad, much of it comes from the Marriott Sales Reps! I think the bottom line is that no one timeshare program is right for everyone. You have to know how you enjoy vacationing and then invest in the program that will work best for you. I know that my husband and I went to about 4 different presentations and settled on Marriott. We bought our first week back in 1993, and there is no question that the program has changed radically since we bought our first week (we now own three). Fortunately, when we bought into the Destinations Program we still had the option to keep things as they were--we could trade through II, stay at our Resort, or trade for Marriott Reward Points every other year--and now also deposit our week for Exchange Points in the Destinations Program. We will see how the Destination Program will work for us in the near future as we just recently deposited our three weeks with Marriott netting 6,500 exchange points. We'll see how we do versus owning "trust" points. Several in this blog indicate that they haven't had any difficulty using either. Hopefully in the future, MVCI may see the wisdom in accepting a point as a point and eliminate the difference...but we will see. We have always been so satisfied with the Marriott quality and (hopefully) that will never change.

Just a quick response to your question. No, my husband and I would NOT spend that amount of money for just the Points! We are retired and don't have that amount of liquid assets! However, you might consider buying a Marriott unit on the open market--but I'm not certain that you could bring it in to the Destinations Program. Didn't someone mention that you would have needed to have bought it back in 2010?

I am a "Legacy Owner" with a week in Palm Desert. I was told at a Marriott timeshare conversion presentation, that if I switch to the point systems that my annual fee would be $165 and that it would cover all fees with both Interval and Marriott. So if I do the lockout - $85 fee, then put both weeks in Interval. Later book both weeks in Interval - about a $109 fee per week, that all of this is covered by the $165 Marriott exchange fee. So instead of spending $203 that year (plus the Interval Fee), I only pay $165.

Has anyone actually tried that and found it to be true?

Yes, this is how it works with respect to the Interval fees and I've experienced this.

Enrolling your week - Please note that, in my view, you are not changing the underlying character of your legacy week ownership but you are adding additional options. These options include being able to trade your week for Dest. pts, the ability to use the pts to acquire vacation days/weeks, greater flexibility in timing, and a flat fee to cover Interval charges. I enrolled our weeks right after the program was offered and I am happy with the added options/benefits. At the time we enrolled, I think we also received an Interval bonus week or two as an inducement to enroll our weeks - ask about this.

Well, when we joined the Destinations Program, MCVI paid our first year's membership--which included our II membership in the $199 yearly fee for the Destinations Program. Since we had two years remaining on our multi-year II membership (previously purchased), II gave us a credit for our remaining two years--no money, but they gave us a "bonus" week. But when we went to book the week they gave us, II still charged us the exchange fee saying it didn't count for that bonus week! We also had to pay their exchange fee on the one remaining week we had previously deposited with them. So I'm not sure whether or not the membership MCVI pays for us in II really waives the II fees or not! Anyone else have any problems with II not waiving their fees? We have had a less than successful relationship with II!

The problem I have with the Destinations program is that they seem to treat the legacy owners unfairly when it comes to getting into the new program. I own a platinum 3 bedroom week in Orlando. I'm told this week is worth 3,275 points if I convert it to points. Yet the 3275 points I receive would not even be enough to book a red week two bedroom at my home resort! I recognize that I still have the option to assign my week the old way and use it that way, but it seems to me that to be fair to legacy owners we should receive as much in points for the week we turn in for points as Marriott requires to use that week.

Further, it is nice to say that "you can still use your week the old way" so the Destinations just is an enhancement. Unfortunately that has not been my experience. Previously, I had virtually NO problem exchanging my week for wherever and whenever I wanted to go. Now since Destinations has come out, I have had two occasions where I have not been able to get exchanges for my existing weeks. One of the searches I did was for "any Florida location", so I am certain there would have been SOMETHING under the pre-Destinations system.

I am concerned that not only am I not getting fair value for my existing ownership in the new points system, but that my ability to use my existing ownership is being compromised by people using points taking up the inventory I want by being able to bid more points because I haven't received a fair allocation of points for what I turned in. I concur that oftentimes a class action doesn't do much but benefit the lawyers, but it seems to me that existing Marriott owners are being cheated in this transition and that some sort of stand needs to be taken to protest this fact and require fair treatment.

I have read similar thoughts to Tom's before. I'm thinking about ways that legacy owners could enhance their position in relation to the notion that we are competing, to our disadvantage, with the Destinations program for access to our weeks. First, "we would need to be convinced that this is true" and that our problem is solely the result of Destinations. I'm not convinced, but read on.

Now, let's conclude, right or wrong for the moment, that Destinations has put us to a disadvantage in the use of our legacy weeks and then, how this could be remedied. One thought, could we deposit our weeks with a trading vehicle (Interval or another firm) that is compelled to give Marriott legacy owners the first rights to deposited legacy weeks? Of course, this may cause Vacation Club to withdraw enrolled owners access to trust weeks and to other enrolled options - which many of us like. Would Legacy owners be happier with something like this?

Now, we move on to the issue of point values for deposited weeks and the points required for the weeks we want......

Ultimately, I suspect we would conclude that acceptance of Destinations is the only viable option. Sounds to me a lot like the current Health Care issue under consideration by the Supreme Court. Can they delete portions of the program or should the entire bill be scrapped???

Dennis, hate to say it, but you sound more and more like a company shill every day. I completely disagree with your philosophy that our best solution is to support Marriott while we are getting nothing in return.

As I have stated before, I own two Maui units. My solution to get more for my units is not to EVER deposit them for points. Where there is a lack of inventory they will be forced to pay more. Case in point. Intervals gives me two weeks for each Maui unit I trade. In fact last year I actually traded a Maui week for Ko Olina and still got a bonus week. That is what I call a good deal.

Bob, my friend:

Shill, no. Pragmatic, yes!

I guess I'm too old to swim upstream. I don't doubt the frustrations but suspect that most of us on this forum are sophisticated enough to achieve value. You seem to be doing quite well with your "double dipping" despite your frustrations with the new program.

Dennis

exactly! Thank you, Bob! I too get 2 weeks for my 1 week deposit on Interval. At this point I definitely will NOT participate in Marriott destination program. I have 2 weeks in USVI and I will not make them available for the program. I have lost my trust in Marriott Vacation Club and will not advise anyone to buy into it. Rent! Also, I have received an email from mvc just a few days ago urging me to join the program for $695 "On June 14, the price of enrollment for all eligible* weeks purchased through Marriott Vacation Club International, will increase from $695 to $2,395." More scare tactics from MVC sales "team". Great! $2395 for what? I already spent ALOT of money for my weeks, I pay HIGH maintenance fees, I stay in Marriott resorts, I buy drinks, shop, eat on Marriott properties....and on top of it I have to spend more money to get the privilege to spent more? Not this time...Actually, Interval International called me last month and offered great deal for 2 years of membership with them.... way less than $695 and way less than $2395! Please, do not tell me that " Marriott is "for profit" company". I get it. However, Marriott Is becoming "for ripoff" company ......RENT!

I AGREE AS I DO NOT TRADE WITH MARRIOTT AT ALL. IF YOU DO, YOU END UP ON THE SHORT END OF THE DEAL. I HAVE 5 TIMESHARES WITH THEM, 3/ARUBA AND 2/SABAL PALM WHICH I TRADE ONCE I ATTAIN WEEKS #51 AND #52. I RENT FOUR OF WEEKS AND USE THE FIFTH, WHILE GETTING TWICE MY MAINTENAVE FEES IN RENT. AM BUYING ANOTHER ARUBA TIMESHARE AT THE PRICES THAT MARRIOTT WANTS TO BUY THEM FOR, WHICH IS 40% LESS THEN WHAT I PAID FOR MY 3 IN ARUBA. WHY NOT? I CAN RENT THEM AND MAKE MONEY. WHO NEEDS MARRIOTT POINTS!!! JIM

Quite frankly, I don't understand why a legacy owner would not enroll their weeks for "only the Interval fee savings and the flexibility of using less than a full week period?" We enrolled our weeks nearly two years ago and we are glad we did.

Have you looked at the Dest. point cost of 5 day periods, Sunday thru Friday morning? Have you looked at adding one or two days at the start or end of a reservation, a non-weekend day? Have you looked the point cost of a few days of vacation within a month or so (they are usually discounted)? Have you added up the Interval fees you pay and compared them to the annual $199 fixed fee? Has Dest really lessened your ability to use the old program?

One last thought, we own a Newport Villas Fixed 4th of July week and it yields 5,300 points. It is deposited for points every year and we get two weeks for it. Is that so bad?

I have been popping in and out of this thread and initially I just wanted to help what I was seeing turn into a horrible game of telephone. I honestly believe in the Marriott name and have the tendency to want to give the benefit of the doubt when I can. I am not one of those people that live through life always thinking that others will always try to take advantage of me.

I also stopped being as active due to being insulted in an indirect manner due to my positive opinion of the program which, by the way, has come from me doing my own due diligence and factual research versus just leaning on what sales reps have told me, or the other owners hanging out by the pools. Without serious facts and details, we just end up repeating other people's interpretations mixed with a bit of our own.

But here is what I won't accept: no person has the right to call me a company shill because I happen to like the destinations system and share my opinions as to why. I do not try to convince that my way of thinking is the right way and that yours, while different, means it's wrong and therefore, you must have an agenda. So please save your underhanded insults by implying that anyone who likes the new system is a company shill and that those who oppose it are the Real and therefore loyal Marriott owners simply because you refuse to even try and acknowledge the benefits that accompany the new system. Simply acknowleding that their are some benefits doesn't make you a traitor nor does it mean you, in particular, will benefit from those enhancements, or even decide to ever participate. But get over the aspect that things do change and if you like the change, great get it, and if not, that's fine as well. But please stop trying to insult me or convince me that the system is a rip off and therefore I made a bad decision to not only join, but bought points as well. What's good for me may not be good for you, but how dare anyone here try and make me doubt the wisdom of my decision when you don't know my vacation lifestyle and how exactly I am getting more out of my ownership through the addition of Destinations.

And for the Love of God, please get through the fact that Marriott didn't affect our legacy ownership in any way that can be blamed on them.

Marriott inventory available inside Interval was dictated by us as owners who chose to deposit our week and make it available to other owners on an exchange.

How is that any different than enrolled legacy owners electing to use destination points and exchanging with each other? Sure we are using points instead of weeks and are going through Marriott rather than Interval to do the switch, but all you complaining that Interval doesn't have as much inventory as in the past, I will say this....let anyone, Marriott or otherwise try and tell me where I can and can't place my week to do an exchange! If I want to use, or not use Interval, it is my choice!!! And don't any of you for a second try to make some rediculous class action lawsuit up in order to limit my choices just because you want to use my week and I just happened to not put it into Interval for you, since I like and prefer to use it as points! As if I bought my week for you instead of for me.

And to those who are still whining about their week not getting enough points to stay at their home resort, get over that too. You have a deed that gives you a week, what real difference does it make using points at your home resort?

The same holds true for trading our week for MRP. And already there's proof that some see value in it while others don't in this thread. But not a single week gave as many nights on MRP at our home resort either. Funny how we all accepted that but can't get our heads around the same concept when it came to how many destination points we got for our week.

For the love of heaven, super expensive points for platinum plus weeks in high desirable locations rarely were available through interval to begin with. I never got Crystal shores for two years straight and booking 12 months out setting my alarm clock.

I just called tuesday for a last minute travel idea and got confirmed for July 15 which is a Sunday and Friday check out, so yes, I am sacrificing and staying their 6 days in an ocean view, but I have change left over since it was 50% off and I will take 6 days versus no days every single time. And yes, I did check with Interval first since it would be nice to use a week and get a week in return. But it wan't available and in Destinations it was. More off, I was even able to get instant confirmation, no waiting.

It's true I did not have enough points for a full week at Crystal Shores using the points I have from my Lakeshore week, and in the past my lakeshore week could get me a week anywhere regardless of season or location. But like I mentioned before, having that system is nice except when the location you want is never available. Makes it irrelevant in my opinion.

On the same token, I booked my Husband and my Father two full weeks each in a 2 bedroom for next year in Hilton Head for the golf classics for 950 points each. That's 1900 points and could afford to get two more full weeks for a total of 4 weeks all in two bedrooms with just my points from my Lakeshore week. Someone please tell me how Interval can beat that even taking bonus weeks and lock offs into consideration.

So how about everyone stop harping on every flaw of this new system and recognize, no matter how begrudgingly, that it has some perks too.

And for those of you advising Marriott to fail in this endeavor, shame on you for wanting out company to tank and go bankrupt. I for one, want this company to be very strong and successful, even if you aren't the ones to add to their future success, you shouldn't bar the way for others.

For the enrollment price gripe, those of you who have Interval, swallow the idea that you're eventually going to spend over $595 or $695 through renewals alone, not talking about added internal lock off fees or exchange fees and realize that a lifetime membership with Interval alone is worth the cost of enrollment. It even justifies the $165 or $199 as the lesser of the two evils compared to the fees we have all endured throughout the years.

I understand change can be hard when set in our ways or when comfortable, but hard doesn't mean ripoff, it means learning curve. So instead of complaint and feeding the game of telephone, how about we put our energy to more constructive things like actually learning how and when to use points if it's more beneficial for a particular vacation, and knowing when using Interval is better instead??? That way we an have the best of both worlds?!!

My wife and I have 2 weeks at Mountain Side (Park City) and one at Sable Palms (Orlando). We bought the Sable Palms week because when we only had the Park City weeks, we were not getting the weeks we wanted. We are not very flexible in our travel plans. I was very irritated when we needed to buy the 3rd week to get the time we wanted. Last week we just bought the minimum 1,500 points to get into the Trust. My point total gets me into the Premier level. I have already tried to book high demand time in both Hawaii and Vail and have had no success, as such, I am frustrated now, like I was 7 years ago when I bought my Park City weeks. However, I am trying to book times that are less than a year away. If I have the same issues next year, I will feel extremely mislead by my Marriott sales person. However, if what my sales person said is true, I think the points program will be very valuable as it will lead to better options and greater flexibility. I have a very powerful week in Park City and I have never been able to trade it for anything of equal value with II, as such I have always used it. I believe that the points program will allow my family to get into high demand resorts at high demand times. I hope my beliefs are proven to be true! I am new to this forum and it sounds like you have all had a lot more experience with exchanging weeks. I have not had a lot of luck with exchanges, but have amassed a ton of rewards points that never expire and enjoy my home resort, so all in all, not knowing anything else, I am happy with Marriott. Let's see if I can say the same thing next year.

Philip - Have you shared your request and/or concern with the salesperson or with the location sales manager? I have been pleasantly surprised by some of the reservations, locations, Interval trades, etc. that they have helped us get. Give your salesperson a call now and tell them what you are planning a year from now.

Dennis,

Thanks for the advice. Philip

Rip off? Don't think so. The writer noting using the owned property is right. Why swap it for points if not to use points elsewhere? Upgrading to a better time period or location Should be offset by either buying or exchanging for points Also, cancellations, splitting lock offs, exchanges and etc are Now covered in the annual fee. No one is being forced to do anything. That's just rumor crap!

Use what you have as you bought it or get more flexibility by buying more. The deal w dest points does not prohibit exchanges for rewards points. Now w the dp deal you may do either.

Learn to play the game or just sit tight. ***** when there's something valid that has happened. Not supposing!

Guys,

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I had been following this post for some time and would like to thank everyone for sharing your thoughts. It's really beneficial for us to express different view points. I think there is no right or wrong on this topic, just share the experiences. So, some of you warned people and some of you tried to persuade people to get in, I believe your intentions are all good.

Generally, I think it's kind of a common sense that if someone has bad experience with something, it's a good will to warn others. For me, I would do that. Similar for good stuff, I would share my experience with others. But, I wouldn't try that hard to persuade others if they feel it’s good. My attitude would be, I tell you it's good, believe it or not, it's not my business. I would just keep enjoying it myself and not spending so much energy and time to prove I am right and persuade others to do the same thing. Unless I am defending something else. I believe that's why Bob becomes so suspicious with Dennis’ role in real world. So, enough said.

Anyways, I own 2 2-BR platinum weeks at GV, Orlando. I attended the presentation 1 year ago and decided not to join the new point system since its rules seem unreasonable to me, beside the misleading sales pitch.

I am no expert on the new point system, but looking into it, I have some thoughts, as a week owner.

Why Marriott push out this new system? I believe that with the original deeded system, owners exchange weeks “directly”. When I say “directly” I mean mostly thru II. Hence, although it’s Marriott properties, Marriott doesn’t make profit during the exchange process (maybe it does, but not I am aware of).

Now, Marriott steps in between the exchanging owners. What Marriott does is that it cuts off the direct week to week exchange channel between owners thru II. If owners can exchange weeks thru Marriott, then there is no difference for the owners. But what Marriott does is to convert the weeks into points. So now the owners can’t exchange week to week anymore. Marriott controls the rules of this game. It decides how many points you can get from your ownership. Ok, if that’s it, and if the owners can still exchange points to points fairly, then there is no problem.

The problem is, when you exchange into points, you only get 60% of what your unit worth, that’s for all the owners.

What that means is, for example (a really simple one), if 2 owners each has a unit with equal value, say 3000 points and they want to exchange, no problem, as each owner agrees it would go right thru.

But after Marriott steps in, each owner only gets 1800 points. Can they still exchange with each other? Even if they agree, it’s not their call anymore. Marriott says “No Way!” since each of you only has 1800 points and you need 3000 points for that unit!!!!! I hope you get the idea here.

So what you need to do to perform the same exchange? Buy more points!! From whom? Of course Marriott. That’s how Marriott squeeze more money (Big Money) out of their owners’ pockets thru the exchange process and that’s why Marriott push the owners so hard to convert into the new system.

And that’s why a lot of owners have the same question, why the points I get is not even enough to request my own unit? I believe that’s the trick Marriott plays. Marriott sales will tell you that if you want to use your own unit, you don’t exchange into point system. But, that’s not the problem. The problem is that it’s not a fair game. Not a fair game not between the owners, but between all the owners and Marriott, and the game rules favor Marriott!!!!!

Again, I am no expert on the new point system and it’s only my reasoning. Personally I feel this scheme is a big rip-off for the owners and I believe a lot of owners don’t feel right and choose not to join.

And of course, there are also owners that see good side of it and choose to join. And many owners didn’t get the real picture before they decide to convert and now regret, only find it’s a one way ticket…..

I am just sharing my thoughts. I am not arguing with anyone nor trying to persuade anyone. Like it or not, I don't care. I don't have that kind of time and energy. If you have different opinions or insights, please share.

Again, thanks for all people that post here. I learned a lot.

Those of you who are not being offered a fair number of points for your unit are in the same boat that I was with a much smaller time share system. My ocean front Daytona Beach 2br gave me access all but 8 weeks of the year, and those were locked out because they were event weeks, where the owners had a specific unit every year for the event, like the Daytona 500 stock car race.

The time share points conversion only offered me 3000 points. This meant I only had enough points to use the unit for 28 weeks of the year, instead of the 44 weeks I had access to before. They couldn't, or wouldn't see my point of view, that I had to have enough points to use all the weeks as advertised, not just half the year. And their conversion fee was over $3000. I circulated letters to all members via the home owners association, don't know if your resorts have these. Eventually the time share caved in and offered to convert with the maximum points that a 2Br could have, so I then had access to any week, even the 8 event weeks, should one of those ever come available.

Don't know if this will work for you, and it took over two years of complaining. I also signed contract to convert about every 6 months when I was at the resort, and then cancelled them out. Each time I stated the reason for cancellation, was the bad value for the money and loss of usage. (Took advantage of Florida's law to cancel for any reason withing 10 days.)

Hello,

That is not the case with Marriott owners. They don't have to use points. They can make their reservations as they always have during the same season. Nothing has changed. In your case you could not stay in your resort you did not have access to the same number of weeks. Marriott owners' complaints are that they do not receive the amount of points it costs to stay at their own resorts. However, they don't need points to stay there. All they need to do is make a reservation and book it. It's owners of other Marriott properties that have to use points. So if your property needs 4000 points to stay in a 2 bedroom. You may only receive 3900 points to stay at other Marriott properties. However, you don't have enough points to stay at your own, but it's not necessary. You can stay at your own by just making a reservation. You don't use points to stay at your own place only at others properties. The number of points used at other properties can be more or less depending on the size unit, time of year and week desired and location. That's a big difference from your situation.