General Discussion

Ripoff - Marriott Vacation Club Destinations Program - New Point System

Apr 02, 2012

HELLO!

No one here is that stupid! What the problem is, are point offers that don't allow you a like for like exchange. Example: One would have to be down right STUPID to give up a week in MAUI to not have enough points to go somewhere else in a high season. That goes for anyone else who needs to buy more points to get an equal exchange for what they already have. If you only want to go to your existing unit, than you would never need the points.

I have seriously tried to be nice, but some of you who think for some reason you know more than those who don't agree with you , need a reality check. Or you need to read the entire post. If you think you got more by making the conversion, more power to you.

Ask yourself one question, why would someone buy enough points to get to Maui, when it is almost impossible to book a high season week there, yet I would not be able to sell one of my weeks there for HALF the price of the points?

Enough said!


Bob P.
Apr 02, 2012

We finally got it, some are insulted by the price in Dest. pts to trade into other properties. Some think that the point spread between depositing an owned week and trading into another property is too high - not a fair deal. So what do you do now? Well, you don't enroll your weeks and you just use the options you got with your original purchase.

By now, we've heard all of the complaints and yet, many of us are moving on with the new program. Perhaps, we just agree to disagree. It's OK.


Den
Apr 03, 2012

No one claimed that you were stupid!

What Marriott did was put a value on their various properties the way the did when they charged people. That is the significant difference. They said a 2 bdroom in Hawaii in the summer is of higher value than a 2 bedroom in Desert Springs in the summer. There was more than likely a great difference in price there. Now if someone paid $30,000+ compared to $15,000+ , in my opinion if I am changing to points, the person who paid $30,000 should get more points.

So if you own in Maui, you should have more than enough points to go to Palm Desert in the winter and Newport Coast in the summer. Those are prime time weeks for those properties. In fact, if you made those exchanges, you would have additional days to use.

With Marriott quantifying the values of the properties, it does give some advantage to those who invested more into the higher priced properties. I look at it as a little bonus for the extra maintenance fees.

I am looking at things from my perspective as an legacy owner. I can't and don't look at this from a points person because that is not my goal. I will rent points if I need more for something because I don't want additional everlasting maintenance fees.


Charles S.
Apr 03, 2012

Charles, you actually make my point for me. As I have said, I own two Maui 1br units that would get me 3100 points under the system. I also own a 2BR Palm Desert winter unit that gets me 2900 points, but would cost you 3750. Granted different number of bedrooms, but as you would suspect, Maui cost more. Thus, the 2900 I get for PD won't trade for Maui, and the Maui won't get a 2BR winter in PD. Mind you that is only an example.

Thus, as Dennis has said, I have two units in the #1 requested location in the Marriott system, and should simply go there every year since I don't like the deal. Mind you, if all of the Hawaii owners did the same, the people who bought those expensive points would have an almost impossible time getting those units.

I know I have expressed the most disgust here, but to be very honest, I have already been to every Marriott in the system that I would even care to go to. I simply have nothing to gain by converting to the points and thus chose not to. The Rip-Off I was most concerned with was actually the amount that new owners were being charged and the difference in the amount received.

You won't hear from me again. Good luck!


Bob P.
Apr 04, 2012

Well Charles - we really do have similar conditions. I too, like you, could continue to use the reservations at the home resort, and not use points to be able to go to other resorts in the network. But the reason I was interested in the point system was to be able to go to other resorts, without going through Interval or other time share exchange systems.

My issue with Navigo, was that they were not offering enough points in exchange for my unit - one of the highest priced units in their entire system, at the number one property they have in Florida - to stay at either my own or any other decent size unit at the same time of year that I had purchased.

I like you would not want to give up a two bedroom, ocean front in their Diamond season, for a one bedroom in low season in Orlando.

After enough people complained and backed out of deals because of the bad points conversion, they changed the system to give you enough points to use any week at your home resort, in the type of unit you owned. This doubled my usage potential.

As to the signing contracts and backing out of them. You may not be able to do this in every state, but you can in Florida. You have 10 days to send a letter rescinding your contract. The point of doing so is that it cost the resort system money to run these programs - and they give out incentives like meal vouchers and the like during the presentations at many resorts. When you then cancel the contract, they are required to refund ALL your money, and you don't have to give back vouchers you already used. This greatly increases their expenses in selling the conversions. Money will get their attention if nothing else does.

As I said, Navigo changed their ways, and I bought in to convert two of my units over to the points system. I have since purchased 4 more units that were already in the points system, so I did not have to pay the conversion fee. Such after market purchases may work for NEW purchasers in your system, but of course won't help the legacy owners.


Steve M.
Apr 12, 2012

it just keeps getting worse and worse. i just got a flyer for a marriott vacation club inaugural owner cruise for "only" 7500 points plus $602 port charges and taxes on norwegian epic. 7 days eastern carribean miami to miami. being an old cruiser i know that this is one of the deepest discounted itineraries in the cruise world. I called to find out if there was something extra included with the special marriott cruise like free wine or upscale dining venues. free airfare??? are you kidding? NOPE. a champagne toast on the first night. and LUCKY us. we get a Marriott sales presentation during dinner sunday! 7500 points is $3900 in maintenance fees plus the $602 means $4500 "deal". because you spent a chunk of change to purchase the points, and $3900 in maintenance fees, you get the privilege of paying almost 3 times what this cruise is worth. look on ncl website. balcony room is $849 per person. and since i am an ncl frequent cruiser, i'd get at least $100 room credit. so WITHOUT THE MARRIOTT $1600. WITH THE MARRIOTT, $4500. and i paid them $22,000 for the honor of overpaying for their "flexibility". what did we buy? NOTHING. we are screwed no matter what we do with the points. did you see that someone just sold 3750 points here on redweek for $1500 just to get rid of them???? there is a trip to ireland with the same kind of gross overcharging. i called. NO AIRFARE is included! $5000 in fees to get to go on this trip on a bus around ireland??????? i don't think so.


Linda F.
Apr 12, 2012

i don't think you could possibly have expressed the MOST disgust on this forum. i reserve that honor for myself. i'm glad you were smart enough not to fall for their blah blah. unfortunately i did and now i'm stuck with them and i can't use them. and every year i am reminded of my stupidity by having to pay $1300 maintenance fee! i am going to trade for a week and then list it for rent on red week just to cover my maintenance fees. but i'm still out $22,000 for NOTHING. i own NOTHING. if you can't sell it, you don't own it. in the case of this program, IT OWNS YOU!


Linda F.
Apr 12, 2012

This is what I've been telling people for a long time in here. Points are just air. They can raise the number of points you need to book a week anytime they feel like it. Next year they can double your maintenance fees if they want to. You own nothing but an obligation to pay whatever fee they demand. My advice is tell everyone you know not to buy into the timeshare industry until it cleans up their act. Join the National Timeshare Owners Association at www.nationaltimeshareownersassoc.com. It's the only organization I know that fights for owners rights. It's a small investment to protect your investment. My other advice is to go to this site or another one and rent a week that someone else has posted. It's a way to help someone else and keep the greedy timeshare owners from selling more useless points.


Don P.

Last edited by donp196 on Apr 12, 2012 05:18 PM

Apr 12, 2012

Please let us know how the trip was when you get back.


Den
Apr 13, 2012

are you sitting down? i bought my points 6 months ago because, as is a theme repeatedly throughout this website, i was not told the true facts. i have tried everything in my power to get rid of them. i do NOT want to pay $1300 per year for life and every year have to realize what a stupid idiot i was or i would use points for some condo and rent it on redbook just to get my fees bank. still out $22,000.

WAIT

here is the good part. i found someone willing to buy my points for 1/2 what i paid for them 6 months ago and with 5000 points banked that i paid fees on and did not use. everything was going along swimmingly UNTIL MARRIOTT TOLD HIM IF HE BOUGHT MY POINTS HE WOULD HAVE TO PAY THEM $2500 TO CHANGE THE NAME TO HIS!!!!!! THEY ARE BLOCKING MY SALE SO THEY CAN SELL HIM NEW ONES!! there is no reason to charge this high fee just to change the name on the deed. and the KICKER? now the buyer has backed out even though i also AGRRED TO PAY THE $2500 FEE FOR HIM!! he doesn't want to own where they treat people like this. what if he needed to sell in the future? so not only did they cost me the sale where i would ONLY lose $13,500, he's not going to buy their new ones either. what did they gain except to hurt me?


Linda F.
Apr 13, 2012

lfrappia wrote:
are you sitting down? i bought my points 6 months ago because, as is a theme repeatedly throughout this website, i was not told the true facts. i have tried everything in my power to get rid of them. i do NOT want to pay $1300 per year for life and every year have to realize what a stupid idiot i was or i would use points for some condo and rent it on redbook just to get my fees bank. still out $22,000.

WAIT

here is the good part. i found someone willing to buy my points for 1/2 what i paid for them 6 months ago and with 5000 points banked that i paid fees on and did not use. everything was going along swimmingly UNTIL MARRIOTT TOLD HIM IF HE BOUGHT MY POINTS HE WOULD HAVE TO PAY THEM $2500 TO CHANGE THE NAME TO HIS!!!!!! THEY ARE BLOCKING MY SALE SO THEY CAN SELL HIM NEW ONES!! there is no reason to charge this high fee just to change the name on the deed. and the KICKER? now the buyer has backed out even though i also AGRRED TO PAY THE $2500 FEE FOR HIM!! he doesn't want to own where they treat people like this. what if he needed to sell in the future? so not only did they cost me the sale where i would ONLY lose $13,500, he's not going to buy their new ones either. what did they gain except to hurt me?

You need to dig into your reams of paper that you got when you bought your points, and see if the transfer fee is not listed. My times shares are all in the same system, but each resort where I have a week, there is a specific number of points for the week, based on season and unit - as well as a specific fee to transfer ownership to the buyer. These range from as low as $75 to as high as $225. The fee is independent of the price paid or unit size - it is flat rate for any transfer of ownership.

Find out if there is a published fee for the transfer in your system. If it is not the $2500 that they quoted to your buyer - you should be able to file suit against them for fraud. Maybe even get then to give you the original price - to get out of a law suit that they could lose.

Good luck - I am just glad that the system I am in is not as bad as this message group is saying your system is.


Steve M.
Apr 13, 2012

Quick Dennis, put a positive spin on this. Tell him how this is a positive and that Marriott deserves his support. Then get the hell out of here and start your own thread.

I know I promised not to say anything again, but like Marriott, I LIED.


Bob P.
Apr 13, 2012

you mean the 40 or so pages of tiny print both sides that they gave me about 5 minutes to read before signing? well today they directed me to the section that says "a fee will be charged for change of ownership" since i have sold two deeded weeks before for minimal fees such as you are speaking of, under $200, that would not alert me that it is so much per point (which is NOT in the contract) $2500 for 2500 points even if I had read it. they deliberately buried it in there like all the other negative aspects they didn't want us to know. those of you with 6500 points, your buyers would have to pay $6500 just to get their name on the deed. a bit of paperwork. we all know for SURE that anything that has to do with this system AT ALL, they will figure out a way to make money off it at our expense- a LOT of money. I may lose my house because I lost my job and I needed to sell these points. But they don't care about us. This is not how it used to be with Marriott. I had 5 friends and family buy after I did at first in 1989. I LOVED marriott time share and have a lot of happy memories. but now I can barely contain my RAGE. It is eating me alive. I am going to write tv, newspapers, consumer advocacy groups whoever. I will spend the rest of my life exposing this. My goal is that no other person will ever be taken advantage of by these vultures. Help me. write letters. lots of letters. facebook, twitter, tell everyone you know what a bum deal we got. I'm actually happy for the guy who backed out of my deal and for his wife and two kids that they did not end up in this system. if you know anyone who wants to buy some points cheap, let me know.


Linda F.
Apr 13, 2012

Hello,

I know that you are unhappy with what is going on. I am thinking that you are a legacy owner (one who owns deeded weeks at a Marriott.) If that's the case then you have the option of dropping out of the Destinations Club. This way you don't have to use points and you can try to sell your unit the old way for a week. You can then also use it the way you used to as well. If you bought additional points, well that as you can see is another story. I have shared on other forums as well as this that to buy additional points is not the way if you are already an owner of a week. The key would be to rent someone else's points so that you are not stuck paying those annual maintenance fees.

Ultimately, we are all responsible for what we sign and agree to on a contract. Marriott may have given you 5 minutes, but you had another 5-7 DAYS to read and rescind what you signed. That is all part of the package you received.

I have sensed from some of your posts you are extremely unhappy or maybe sickened by the way things have gone. You can still love your Marriott timeshare the old way if you still have those units.

I would advise you and other to go to Timeshares Users Group (tug2.net) where there is a mountain of information on the Marriott forum. There are owners like you who are sharing ideas and the pros and cons of the new points system. Learn like they are and share. Some are very happy with the system and some are just as upset as you are, but people are trying to work the system to their advantage. We have to pay the maintenance fees anyway so while we have it let's try to work it and use it.


Charles S.
Apr 14, 2012

Welcome back Bob!

Legacy owners - Has anyone found a timeshare program that they would advise their children to buy? If so, which one is best?

Also, are you comfortable with the prospect that your children will be able to achieve continuing value? Is the timeshare concept sustainable from one generation to another?


Den
Apr 14, 2012

MARRIOTT OWNERS--DON'T TRADE WITH MARRIOTT-YOU'LL GET THE SHORT END OF THE DEAL.

MARRIOTT POTENTUAL CONDO BUYERS--DON'T GET SUCKERED INTO THEIR POINT PROGRAM--IT'S A RIPOFF. BUY FROM A MARIOTT OWNER WHO WANTS TO SELL BECAUSE OF AGE, HEALTH, OR ECONOMIC REASONS AND SAVE 50-75% OF THE COST FROM MARRIOTT.

AS A MARRIOTT OWNER FOR OVER 20 YEARS, I HAVE SEEN THE MAINTENANCE FEES DOUBLE, THE TRADE POINTS STAY THE SAME, AND THE VALUE OF THOSE POINTS LOSE 50% OF THEIR VALUE. WHETHER IT'S THE OLD POINT SYSTEM OR NEW POINT SYSTEM, IT'S ALL IN MARRIOTT'S FAVOR.

MARRIOTT IS HOLDING THE VALUE OF OUR PROPERTIES DOWN BY TRYING TO BUY BACK THEIR QUALITY PROPERTIES AT PRE-BUILDING PRICES FROM 20 YEARS AGO, AND THEN SELLING POINTS FOR THOSE PROPERTIES AT 3-4 TIMES THAT PRICE TO THE NEW PROSPECTS. EXAMPLE, I SPOKE TO AN OWNER THIS JAN. IN ARUBA WHO PAID $14,000 FOR THE SAME CONDO THAT I PAID $33,000 FOR 5 YEARS AGO( 2/B, SURF CLUB,PLATINUM, LOCKOUT). MARRIOTT OFFERED $14,000 FOR MY CONDOS 8 MONTHS AGO. THAT SAME CONDO THEY ARE ASKING A NEW PROSPECT TO BUY 46,000 POINTS OR MORE @ $10.00 OR MORE PER POINT. THAT'S $46,000 PLUS.

I'M BUYING ANOTHER INDENTICAL UNIT FROM A MARRIOTT OWNER FOR $17,000, $3,000 MORE THAN WHAT MARRIOTT OFFERED HIM, AND SAVING $26,000.

MARRIOTT HAS DRAGED THIS CLOSING FOR ABOUT 3 MONTHS, VERY UNCOOPERTIVE, TIME DELAYS, ECT. SINCE I'M IN REALESTATE, I KNOW THIS IS AT MOST A 2 WEEK CHORE, BUT NOT WITH MARRIOTT. THEY ALSO WANT THE BUYER TO KNOW THAT THIS UNIT DOESN'T QUALIFY FOR EITHER OF THEIR POINT PROGRAMS. WHO CARES, THOSE PROGRAMS ARE RIPOFFS ANYWAY.

THE BEST ADVISE I CAN GIVE ANY NEW CONDO BUYER IS THIS: 1) BUY ONLY IN A TOP FIVE VACATION AREA/RESORTS. THERE ARE A LOT OF NICE PLACES TO VACATION, BUT FOR RENTING AND TRADING PURPOSES, THE TOP FIVE WILL BE GIVE YOU ACCESS TO ALL OF THEM 2) BUY ONLY IF YOU CAN SELECT YOUR WEEKS 12-13 WEEKS AHEAD 3) SELECT YOUR WEEKS, NOT BY WHETHER YOU CAN USE THEM AT THAT TIME, BUT WHETHER THEY ARE THE PRIME WEEKS FOR THAT RESORT. IF YOU CAN'T USE THOSE WEEKS, YOU WILL AT LEAST HAVE A HIGH PRIORITY RESORT AND PREMIUM WEEKS TO RENT OR TRADE FOR ANYPLACE OR TIME YOU WANT TO VACATION. CHECK WITH REDWEEK.COM AND PICK THE HIGHEST RENTAL PERIOD OF THE YEAR.

AS FOR THOSE PEOPLE WHO ABSOLUTELY WANT TO SPEND EVERY YEAR IN ARUBA, RATHER THAN PAY $46,000 OR MORE FOR POINTS, ANOTHER 4% MAINTENANCE FEES( $1840 EACH YEAR), THEY WOULD BE BETTER RENTING ONE OF MY UNITS FOR $2500/WEEK FOR THE NEXT 25 YEARS AND ACCUMULATE INTEREST EACH YEAR ON THE CAPITAL SAVED.

JUST ANOTHER CASE OF GREED IN THE BUSINESS WORLD TODAY. MARRIOTT DOES NO MORE OF BUYING LAND, NO MORE BUILDING OF RESORTS, TRIES TO GET OWNERS TO TRADE THEIR RESORTS FOR 30-40% LESS POINTS THAN WHAT THEY CHARGING OTHER PEOPLE, ARE TRYING BUYING CONDOS FOR PRE-CONSTUCTION PRICES OF 20 YEARS AGO OR MORE, ECT. THEY COINTINUE TO SELL THIS HIGH PRICED POINT PROGRAM TO THOUSANDS EVERY MONTH AND YET IF THEY CAN'T SELL THIS PROGRAM TO THEIR MARRIOTT OWNERS, THEY DON'T HAVE ENOUGH RESORTS FOR ALL THESE PEOPLE. __DON'T GIVE UP YOUR RESORTS.


Jim B.
Apr 14, 2012

I LOVE MARRIOTT BUT WAIT!!!

1-THIS PROGRAM IS JUST A WAY FOR MARRIOTT TO MAKE MORE MONEY!

2- READ THE ENTIRE CONTRACT OF ALL TERMS AND CONDITIONS FIRST!

3-DID YOU KNOW IF YOU OWN ANOTHER TIMESHARE WEEK BESIDES A MARRIOTT WEEK YOU NEED "ANOTHER'' MEMBERSHIP WITH INTERVAL FOR THE NON MARRIOTT WEEK! THAT IS CURRENTLY $165.00 A YEAR FOR MARRIOTT AND A MINIMUM OF $89.00 A YEAR FOR EXCHAGE OF A NON MARRIOTT WEEK BESIDES AN EXCHANGE FEE ON TOP OF THAT FOR THE NON MARRIOTT WEEK!!

4-BESIDES THE POINT SYSTEM BY MARRIOTT CAN BE INCREASED OR DECREASED BY MARRIOTT TO USE FOR EXCHANGES.

5- IF YOU CONVERT YOUR WEEK TO POINTS YOU CAN FORFIT THOSE POINTS IN CERTAIN SITUATIONS AFTER ONE YEAR!! DON'T USE YOU LOSE!!!

6-I HAVE DEPOSITED A MARRIOTT FIXED TIME WEEK(Easter Week) THROUGH INTERVAL LAST YEAR AND HAVE NOT RECIEVED AN EXCHANGE TO ANOTHER MARRIOTT PROPERTY. DID YOU KNOW THE NEW MARRIOTT PROGRAM CONTINUES NOT TO GAURANTEE A SPECIFIC RESERVATION!!!

7-THIS PROGRAM IS $595 for MARRIOTT AND GOING UP TO OVER $2,000 JUNE 2012. YOU NEED TO HURRY FOR THIS FANTASTIC OFFER IF YOU LIKE WHAT I HAVE WROTE SO FAR.

8-BUYER BE WARE !!!!! THIS PROGRAM NEEDS A MAJOR OVER HAUL TO BE ATTRACTIVE TO ANYONE WHO CHECKS OUT THE FACTS AND THAT IS ALL CONTRACT INFORMATION PROVIDED BY MARRIOTT AND INTERVAL.


Edmund E.
Apr 14, 2012

lfrappia wrote:
I am going to write tv, newspapers, consumer advocacy groups whoever. I will spend the rest of my life exposing this. My goal is that no other person will ever be taken advantage of by these vultures. Help me. write letters. lots of letters. facebook, twitter, tell everyone you know what a bum deal we got. I'm actually happy for the guy who backed out of my deal and for his wife and two kids that they did not end up in this system. if you know anyone who wants to buy some points cheap, let me know.

Hi, here is a good start....http://www.blogs.marriott.com/ too bad all the posts are being screened, but may be we can ask Bill how many points he used to buy the cake. (I am very sorry about your situation...what a mess!)


Art D.
Apr 14, 2012

charless345 wrote:
Ultimately, we are all responsible for what we sign and agree to on a contract. Marriott may have given you 5 minutes, but you had another 5-7 DAYS to read and rescind what you signed. That is all part of the package you received. .

Hello, I understand what you are saying, however, it should not give anybody a license to steal.


Art D.
Apr 14, 2012

I guess I don't see it as stealing. You had all the rules in front of you to accept or not in writing.

It is like going to the store and not counting your change before you go. If you go home and discover you have the incorrect change then it's on you. For you to come back and accuse someone of stealing from you creates a he said she said situation. One needs to do their due diligence upfront.

When we buy cars there is no colling off period, at least in California. You have a week to cool off and change your mind. If what you're unhappy about is not in writing that's one thing. However, if there is no violation of the contract then people must accept it and move on.


Charles S.

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