Ripoff - Marriott Vacation Club Destinations Program - New Point System

and the plot thickens....great post (June, 2011) from here: http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=135300&page=7

"I called up last year when I was debating whether or not to enter the program. I asked directly "Is Marriott guaranteeing that the point amounts for a given week at a given location will remain the same always, since the calendars for the points required are only through 2012?" 

-- BTW, I got the year wrong, as the other commenter pointed out. The points are fixed only through 2012, not 2013 --

The Marriott rep told me that Marriott reserves the right to increase the required points, and that they can only guarantee they will remain the same through 2012. Specifically, in order to assuage my concerns, the rep said I should "trust Marriott to do what is in the best interests of the owners."

Obviously Marriott has not made any definitive public statements that they intend to raise the required points amount at a future time since this would seriously hurt participation in the DC program now. However, it is only common sense - inflating away the value of the DC points opens a new stream of revenue as owners are required to periodically purchase new DC points. Common sense, plus the company leaving the door wide open, equals the inevitable."

charless345 wrote:

I guess I don't see it as stealing. You had all the rules in front of you to accept or not in writing.

In other words - stupid is as stupid does!

7 days! (actualy it is 10 nights/9 days)))))) Charles, it's been over a year and some of us are still trying to figure the system out including people who bought.  Anyways, nice examples with change and cars...Thanks!

I believe there are about 400,000 Marriott Vacation Club owners and there are a few on this forum who are trying to steer the ship. These parties complain about a contract they signed and never bothered to read, about mgmt fees increasing to maintain their interests, etc. and only demonstrate their foolishness.

A challenge, please show us a vacation program that is better than Vacation Club. Incidentally, the program must still be around and serving it's owners.

Dennis

I agree with the majority of people in this forum that Dennish is a shill. He defends Marriott as if he works for them. Points can be increased at Marriott's will. If you trust that they will not raise the number of points required for stays in the future and maintenance fees then I have a bridge to sell you and a winning Nigerian Lottery ticket.

donp196 wrote:

I agree with the majority of people in this forum that Dennish is a shill. He defends Marriott as if he works for them. Points can be increased at Marriott's will. If you trust that they will not raise the number of points required for stays in the future and maintenance fees then I have a bridge to sell you and a wining Nigerian Lottery ticket.

LOL!!!

dennish144 wrote:

I believe there are about 400,000 Marriott Vacation Club owners and there are a few on this forum who are trying to steer the ship. These parties complain about a contract they signed and never bothered to read, about mgmt fees increasing to maintain their interests, etc. and only demonstrate their foolishness.

A challenge, please show us a vacation program that is better than Vacation Club. Incidentally, the program must still be around and serving it's owners.

Dennis

Dennis, any vacation program is not a "one-size-fits-all".  It is good for you if you are retired and have a half a dozen grandchildren.  Therefore, I would say unless you are one... do not buy into it.  Here is another great post from tug:

" I hear lots of "lifestyle" arguments in favor of buying VC points. "Yeah, it's a bit expensive, but you can lock in irreplaceable access to the best places at the best time." Well, I've done a little homework on that "irreplaceable" argument, working with Ko Olina (my home resort). Its ultra premium periods, corresponding point costs for 2BR mountain view and ocean view, Marriott rental costs, Redweek rental costs and points costs are respectively: ------------------------MV OV------Marriott Rental---Redweek Rental----Real cost of points  Spring Break (4/22):-----4800 6025--$404*/442*------$243/271----------$597/759 Thanksgiving:-----------4800 6025--$536^/526#------ $314/543(3BR)----$597/749 Christmas:--------------4800 6025--$569^/619^------$414/426----------$597/749 New Year's:-------------5500 6875--$484#N/A--------$314/429---------$684

* = MOD Discount, #Advance Purchase, ^ Leisure Rate Note that in every case, renting directly from Marriott yields significant savings over buying points.

Real cost for points is derived by the $.40/point maintenance fee plus a calculation for what the investment could reasonably yield if not given to Marriott. I have used a figure of just under 5%, which is available right now (one example being a Goldman Sachs 6.75% bond of 2037, A2/A- rated, yielding 6.89% to maturity). Even after taxes, this bond (widely available) will d exchange points (but that's a minimum of 1500 points, remember), new points look like a truly terrible deal."

http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=135300&page=4

Cheers! Olga

Unfortunately, it ain't "Marriott" anymore--it's MCVI--just using the Marriott name! Marriott WOULD do the right thing...MCVI, maybe not so much....

kathrynm139 wrote:

Unfortunately, it ain't "Marriott" anymore--it's MCVI--just using the Marriott name! Marriott WOULD do the right thing...MCVI, maybe not so much....

jimb387 wrote:

I AGREE AS I DO NOT TRADE WITH MARRIOTT AT ALL. IF YOU DO, YOU END UP ON THE SHORT END OF THE DEAL. I HAVE 5 TIMESHARES WITH THEM, 3/ARUBA AND 2/SABAL PALM WHICH I TRADE ONCE I ATTAIN WEEKS #51 AND #52. I RENT FOUR OF WEEKS AND USE THE FIFTH, WHILE GETTING TWICE MY MAINTENAVE FEES IN RENT. AM BUYING ANOTHER ARUBA TIMESHARE AT THE PRICES THAT MARRIOTT WANTS TO BUY THEM FOR, WHICH IS 40% LESS THEN WHAT I PAID FOR MY 3 IN ARUBA. WHY NOT? I CAN RENT THEM AND MAKE MONEY. WHO NEEDS MARRIOTT POINTS!!! JIM

Jim, yes, the Marriott points is so over rated....

Expensive, yes. Overrated, no. Legacy owners who don't like the Dest Points aren't compelled to enroll their weeks. Why not just use what you bought the old way. What do you expect to accomplish with this constant complaining about something you don't want to buy? Just don't enroll your weeks and don't buy in!

SHOW YOU A BETTER PLAN FOR VACATIONS? EASY. DON'T BUY ANY OF THEM AND RENT FROM RED WEEK. OR VRBO OR ANY NUMBER OF CONDO RENTAL COMPANIES. TRY GITES-DE-FRANCE.COM FOR RENTALS IN FRANCE FROM LOCALS. OR ABRITEL FOR ALL OF EUROPE. THE NEW MANTRA IS "NO ONE NEEDS A TIME SHARE". YOU CAN DO BETTER WITHOUT IT.

Dennis, as you say, there are 400,000 Marriott owners and just a few here who are trying to steer the ship of discontent. Obviously, you shouldn't have any trouble finding ones who agree with you on a new forum. I suggest you start one and let these folks complain in peace.

Charles, I am tired of hearing you point out that those who are complaining should have read the fine print in the contract and not been ripped off. I for one am a CPA/Attorney, who read that contract and knew it was a joke. You on the other hand, read the ENTIRE contract, understood all the loopholes they were hiding in the fine print, and STILL chose to sign it. I submit that since you entered into that agreement with your eyes wide open, your the one who was stupid.

I submit that I made the best decision, sine Marriott is now trying to buy back my units while they are trying to sell you more points. The mirror is probably in your bathroom!

Have a nice day!

The point is that people had time to read the rules. The most important point is to understand what you're getting and who can do what.

The DC program is new to everyone, but it's not the pure points owners that are complaining from what I see. It's the weeks owners who don't have to join that are complaining that Marriott is taking something away from them, taking away value from them, not allowing them to do what they used to do.

Nothing is perfect, nothing. People complain about all of the systems, Disney included. If you don't like the points program use it the way you always have and leave it alone and be happy.

Bobp223, despite your weariness of me expressing that what is in print is what one must go by, it is merely fact. It is a fact that one should read before they sign or take advantage of the rescinding period. As an adult signing any contract that is your obligagtion.

If you are a CPA/attorney and read it and knew it was a joke, then why did you sign it?

I have not bought any points from Marriott and as I have stated on this forum and others, renting points would be the best way for a weeks owner in the points program to get additional points without the neverending maintenance fees.

Bob, you seem to be so angry. People can have a difference of opinion. First, I want you to understand that I agree with you that the points are very expensive. I would not join Marriott as a points only owner. To me you would need to have about 6500 points or so to be able to go most places in the system at any time. I would buy a weeks unit resale that I love.

At the core of all of this is change. Oldtimers in the system are having a problem with change and what they were accustomed. The funny thing is that Marriott has not forced them to change, but to just exchange differently, IF THEY WANT TO DO SO.

Is it reasonable to expect any entity to guarantee to hold prices for ever? Holding price for a year is more than fair. Points are obviously tied to market pricing just the same as greenbacks. No?

I have been with Diamond Resorts International (DRI) and they have never gone up on points needed for any of their resorts and prior to their takeover of Sunterra. I have been with them for The rule was they could not ask for more points for a specifc room than when you joined. I joineed 10 years ago and have not seen an increase in points needed. The increase in points are usually seen in a resort if they make a major change in the room and I don't mean refurbishing it also. When DRI has added extra features to rooms in which they may have added rooms or changed the structure of the units do they tack on more points. However, they also keep regular units so you can still attend those resorts. I believe Disney may do so also, but they should let people know.

g333s - I, for one, appreciate the sanity you bring to this board. I am one who feels very happy with my Marriott product and have used it fully. One thing you mentioned in a response to someone a few months ago especially caught my attention - that is, that there are ways around Marriott's restriction on using MRP points when buying a resale from a third party. Can you elaborate? (I've especially loved making the most out of MRPs!). - thanks!

Charles, I NEVER signed anything to do with points and never will. My beliefs have always been, If it can't be spelled out in plain English than they are hiding something. Here, the sales people would say anything they could to hide the facts, that although there, were well hidden. This is why most of those who are complaining feel bilked. Sadly people are too trusting and thus susceptible to unscrupulous business practices. My rule concerning Timeshare salesman is, IF THEIR MOUTH IS MOVING, THEY ARE LYING.

It is sad to believe that a company with such a great name and product came to this. The people that I bought my units from had CLASS. These folks don't. Is what they are doing legal? POSSIBLY!

To the complainers:

These many complaints are such baloney and if you really had a cause of action you would have filed by now. Does this constant complaining actually make you happy.

We own timeshare weeks, have enrolled our weeks, have acquired Dest points, and have acquired weeks privately. In other words, we've had the whole experience with Marriott Vacation Club. We are not sorry about our participations and enjoy them. A few loud and bitter folks have not changed my view.

I doubt that any vacation program could make some of you happy.

Let's be clear on the decison making involved in all this. 1. If you just wish to go to the same location each year (or trade very seldom) purchase a deeded week from a current oweer. DO NOT PURCHASE POINTS FROM MARRIOTT. 2. If you are already an owner and own one week, buying into the points program is likely not a good decision or at best it is marginal. 3. If you own three of more weeks, buying into the points program is a no brainer (unless you quailify for item 1 above.) You can do whatever you were doing before, have more flexiblity on where you go and for what period of time, and likely save on the annual fees. What has been expecially annoying (understatement) is that: (a) Marriott has done a really poor job or communicating how the inventory is managed. and (b) does not allow the deeded owner who purchases the points program to include that program to a new buyer if they wish (or need) to sell their week. It should be illegal to sell something that can't be resold.