Ripoff - Marriott Vacation Club Destinations Program - New Point System

I agree with the previous poster! Unload and rent from Redweek!!!

Let me say upfront that I really love Marriott, or I used to. We have owned for over 20 years. The purpose of this posting is to warn potential buyers of an obscure problem with the TRUST Points.

I will begin with the "end in mind" according to Steven Covey. If you are an Exchange points owner DON'T BUY TRUST POINTS unless you understand what they really mean! Last year, we enrolled our 4 weeks at Grande Ocean in the Destinations program which gave us Exchange Points and we liked it last year. So far, I can't even get on the waiting list for my home resort in my home season in 2012 with ANY points. Yes, I know, just call up and reserve your week at your home resort, but because when I was trying to book, by the time the vacation club reservations person was able to figure out how to do what I wanted to do (which was perfectly within the guidelines and rules, but they didn't believe me) all the weeks were gone.

This happened to me twice. I would welcome doing this online, but at 13 months out, it can only be done with the "luck of the draw" person you happen to get as you can't call your assigned vacation adviser. All that said, I am hopeful that on September 30th, many weeks will open up as that is the deadline for those who want to rollover points to the next year, or deposit weeks for points, must do so by Sept 30 - even if you don't yet know whether or not you will be lucky enough to use your points at your desired destination the following year or just get a week in your season at your resort! Last year, we had no trouble using Exchange Points but NOW, things seem to be different.

The program overall is probably good and I am optimistic, however, the BIG PROBLEM we have is that we bought TRUST POINTS believing, as we were told, that they were our ticket to "ACCESS" to TRUST INVENTORY. Well, this is not exactly true. Yes, you get access to ONLY as many points as you have in TRUST. (I don't think the person we bought from knew this since I called him after I had so much trouble, he didn't know and had to gt back to me).

You have to keep up with TWO balances and varying expiration dates. We were absolutely told we would have access to ALL inventory. However, we can't use our Exchange points (from the OLD system) for TRUST Inventory. If I had any idea about this, we would have never, never, never, considered this purchase. We have enough points and we didn't need more. We wanted access to the TRUST Inventory! I would NOT recommend this program to anyone. Go and buy a week on the aftermarket. As many problems as I felt like we had with Interval International, they are looking pretty good to me now!

AGAIN, If you are an Exchange Points owner, DON"T BUY TRUST POINTS unless you are CERTAIN you know what you are getting into. We made an $18,000 mistake!!!!

I don't understand your complaint. Exchange points gets you access to the Exchange points inventory and trust points get you access to the trust inventory. You have the best of both worlds now that you can get into both inventory "buckets" instead of just one or the other. Are you complaining that you have more ownership in one versus the other? Then the problem isn't buying the trust, it is that you don't have enough in the trust to do what you want. Or are you upset that you thought that the points combined to give you equal access to both inventory pools? Then it is a misunderstanding and still no reason to try to convince ppl that the trust is not something they should buy. Really, I own both and love it. I have 3525 exchange points and bought 3500 trust points. I have equal amounts and with banking and borrowing options, I never run into any problems with not having enough to do anything my family wants. Nor have I run into any availability issues. So I think people should buy the trust because I always had to wait or settle for my second and sometimes third choice when it was just interval.

Legacy owners own weeks. Legacy enrolled owners are legacy owners who paid a one time fee of $595 if they own one week or $695 if they own more than one week, to have the option to elect points for their week and to save fees. These owners did not convert their deed nor are they part of the destinations ownership. They only owners who are trust owners are those who bought another ownership in the destinations program.

g333s--

My husband and I own 2 weeks in Breckenridge (platinum season) and 1 week in Canyon Villas (platinun season). We recently bought into the Destinations program for $1995 as one week was given us by a family member, and since there was no sale of the property, Marriott let us keep the option to trade for Reward points every other year, but we bdid have to pay the higher entry into the Destinations program since it was technically an "external sale". So if I understand you correctly, we are Legacy owners but not Trust owners--correct? I know Marriott is building properties that will not be part of II and will only be available to Marriott owners who have opted into the Destinations program. I'm assuming that "Trust Owners" are those who will be buying these new properties? We were told that being part of the Destinations Properties gave us the ability to be able to access all Marriott Properties--no? When you talk about Legacy owner points, are you talking about Marriott Reward points? I'm still a little confused about the discussion of Legacy Points. I swear you know more about this program than the Marriott Reps do! Thanks for any clarity you can provide me.

Kathrynm

You are a legacy enrolled owner. That means you own 3 legacy weeks and enrolled them. That was what the $1995 fee was for. Enrollment gives you the option to turn your weeks into election points. They are called election points because you have to elect this option each year you want to use your week in this manner. The dead line to elect points for next year is September 30th. It will always be this date. Otherwise you may choose to use your week at your home resort, exchange through interval, or turn it into Marriott reward points just like before you enrolled.

Marriott reward points are used for hotels and airfare. Although you may use them to stay at resorts as well, but it's not a great use of MRP. The election points are exchanged with other people who have also elected points for their week. So they are sometimes referred to as exchange points, as owners are exchanging amongst themselves and Marriott is now the middleman instead of interval. But it is still an exchange.

Trust owners are those who purchased another deed and therefore have another maintenance fee, with Marriott since 6/20/2010

Trust points are a direct reservation into unsold inventory. It is not an exchange since there doesn't need to be another owner willing to give up his ownership in trade for availability to exist. Basically, if the room is vacant, trust points will get you in. The same way that cash will get you into a vacant hotel room.

The main confusion and fear owners have is that the trust is taking inventory away from them and will make things harder to get. In reality, the trust is an actual land trust registered in Florida and filled with all the unsold inventory Marriott had ownership of as of 6/20/2010. Legacy owners never had access to this inventory. The only inventory we had access to was the weeks other owners deposited with interval. The unsold inventory was put on marriott.com for rental so Marriott could off set the maintenance and taxes they were suck with since their name was still on the deeds.

So I could call for a week and be told the owners that had that week have not given it to interval yet, and therefore it is unavailable, but there could be unsold, vacant inventory available, that I, as a legacy owner, did not have access to.

The great thing about the trust is that I now have access to unsold inventory as well as the weeks other owners are willing to trade. It's increased availability and I'm happy Marriott is letting us have access to their weeks.

And before people cry about feeling entitled to this inventory without buying the trust, look at it this way...

I pay $1200 in maintenance for my week. I wouldn't let someone use it for $109. I would have to rent it out for $1200 just to break even. So if I wouldn't do it, why should I expect Marriott to do it?

Hope this helps.

Oh and to answer another question you had,

The trust is made up of all unsold, new, and future resort properties. Therefore a trust owner will have first priority to this inventory since their deeded this inventory. Then legacy enrolled owners have the ability to exchange into the trust inventory prevailing a trust member chooses not to stay at ANY resort trust inventory. If they do, it is not creating availablity for a legacy enrolled owner to exchange into.

It's like this, if everyone who own your resort chooses to go there, then no one can exchange in. Home resort owners get priority because they own there over someone who doesn't own there.

The trust acts like one big mother resort. Even if they are going to different locations within the trust, it's still in the trust. It's still in their home. So legacy owners have one home resort, trust owners many. So chances of exchanging in are not great. Get the trust if you want guaranteed access to this inventory. I hear marriott wants to grow and all that growth will be put into the trust.

It's like me complaining that I don't have guaranteed access to Aruba even though I don't own in Aruba. If I want Aruba guaranteed, I need to own Aruba. If I want the trust and everything in it, I need to own the trust.

And for those that don't want to spend more money, then don't. But please don't say it's a rip off. That is like me saying that because I don't want to buy Aruba, Aruba is a rip off and scam and no one should buy it, just because I don't buy it. To each their own.

j

Wow! Thanks so much for the information which was very clear and extremely helpful. To be honest--like you--my husband and I have been extremely happy with Marriott--since we have been with them since 1992. We have been very lucky with our requests for Marriott properties through II. We were only unsuccessful with one request through II--a non-Marriott property in Venice. So, we just elected to use some of our Marriott Reward Points and stayed at the Courtyard in Venice (a simple 20 minute bus trip in to the city). Now that we are retired we have even more flexibility. We travel when openings are available. We really opted in to the Destinations Program for the added flexibility and to insure that this flexibility is passed on to our children when they inherit our properties. We don't even bother with outside properties in II. With a Marriott you always know what you will get. Never a nasty surprise! I'm not sure the Trust ownership it worth it for us since were are retired and have the built-in flexibility. If I have other questions, I hope you will keep responding to them as you are really on top of all of this! Thanks again for your help!

g333s--

One other thought. As you know, my husband and I have had our properties for sometime (our first purchase was in 1993--last one in 2004). While in Aruba this June (yep, we made it to Aruba trading for 2 units--so it is possible!), we attended a presentation to explain the benefits of the Destinations Program to Legacy (now that I know that's what we are!) owners. The way it was explained to us is that (as you say) we can continue as we have in the past (go to our home resort, trade for Marriott Reward Points or trade through the Marriott Desk at II) or now we could trade for Marriott Points (ours amount to 6500 total) and exchange through the Destinations Points program--which we opted to do. A big selling point for us was that the rep said that Marriott was going to build other resorts in the future that would not be available through II--but that as members of the Destinations Program we would be able to trade into these properties as well. In all of this, no one has ever mentioned the option of buying into the Trust! Is this because it is now only available to those purchasing new Marriott Timeshares? Any thoughts on why we have never been told about this option? Thanks again for all of your help!

Oh my goodness! How was Aruba? I bet it was fabulous! I'm so jealous lol.

I'm not sure why you were not offered an option to get into the Trust. Especially since 6500 points would make you a Premiere Status owner in the Trust with extra perks and benefits that owners who have less than 6500 points don't get. I do know that Marriott was having an issue with their sales representatives not knowing too much about the new program and not giving accurate or even enough information to the owners during their sales presentations.

Do you still have contact to any of your representatives? If not, I can put you in touch with my contact over at Marriott. She has taken extremely good care of my neurotic tendencies in having to know every nuance and detail of my ownerships and what options are available to me. I think I drive her insane, lol, however she's the one who has provided me with all the legal documents on the Trust for me to study. That combined with my own research is why I am able to accurately understand all the ins and outs of the Trust. I feel confident, that while, I don't know everything, I know enough to maximize my ownership and to avoid some of the unpleasant aspects that can occur in either system. Anyway, if you don't have someone that is in the know at Marriott that can teach you how to work the system, you're missing out. I fully believe any system has angles that are more beneficial than others, but knowing them is the hard part.

Also, I hear that when the Ritz Carlton Destinations Club joins the MVCI company in November, that Marriott is going to have a significant price increase. It could just be a scare tactic to get people to buy now instead of waiting, but it would make sense. Those Ritz resorts are immaculate and the fact that certain owners will be able to stay at those resorts, it would make sense that Marriott will do a price hike for owners who aren't part of the Trust by that time but find the ability to stay at those resorts attractive.

In any case, I'm not sure why you weren't told about the ability to buy into the Trust. Maybe the sales representative was having an off day or just didn't think you would be interested? Having a solid contact can make all the difference.

Since I don't think that all the Marriott reps know what they are talking about yet, I don't mind letting you borrow my lady, as long as you promise to give her back! Haha

By the way, I'm sorry to disappoint you, but if the big selling point for you and your husband to enroll was to have access to all the new and future properties that Marriott has plans to add (like the Ritz) only Trust owners will have access to those, as they will be added into the Trust and not be sold as weeks. As I mentioned before, enrolled owners may have the ability to exchange into the trust (not including the Ritz at all) but Trust owners will always have priority in the Trust over anyone else, since they are Trust owners and other people are not. I ran across the amount of inventory each resort has in the trust in one of the legal documents, and it's safe to say that some resorts have very little inventory that was put into the trust (like Cypress Harbor) while other resorts have more than 80% of their inventory in the Trust. Such as Marco Island. So trust owners have an 80% chance of getting into Marco Island while Enrolled owners are working with only 20% of the inventory. All the new resorts will be 100% trust inventory only since Marriott is no longer selling any weeks. If no weeks are sold, then nothing is being added into the Enrolled inventory. I hope I haven't confused you when I was doing such a good job of clarifying lol. I love helping out my fellow Marriott owners understand though. I was really angry and frustrated when all these changes were happening. Mostly though it was because I just didn't understand and I automatically think change is bad because it forces me out of my comfort zone. I like to think that I'm not the only one that's like that, but like I mentioned before, I'm a bit neurotic :)

Well, the cost of buying into the trust could have been an issue. As it was, we swallowed hard at laying out $1,995 to buy into the Destinations Program. And, yes, we were told that we have Premier status. Further, our annual maintenance fees for the three properties runs us close to $2,800 a year--and on a retirement income that's not inconsequential! Even the material we were given leads one to believe that we now have access to these properties: "You will have access to more than 50 magnificent resorts offering spacious villas...check in any day of the week, any week of the year, for any length of vacation...." And so forth! I did understand that you go to the website to see what is available...but nothing was mentioned about another option of the Trust. Our adviser is Madeleine Gwilliam and I think I will give her a call to see what she has to say about all of this. And yes, Aruba was great--but unbelievably windy! And there is not much to see on the island. We love being able to go to museums and see beautiful sights. Aruba is great if you just want to sit on the beach or at the pool for an R and R--but there ain't much activity beyond that! I'll let you know what Madeleine has to say and if I think I'm still not getting the whole straight story, I will ask if you could give me your rep's name. Again, thanks a bundle! This is all great info to have.

Sounds good. Get a copy of the points book that tells you what each resort costs per night for each room in each season. If you weren't given a copy, I can email you one. I have mine in PDF format. On the top of each resort chart is a small square, sometimes two. One says E for enrolled/election points inventory and the other says T for trust inventory. Also, if you call your VOA and ask them if there can be a time where there is an availability in trust inventory and not in election inventory at the same time in the same resort. Then talk to your rep to see if she knows that there is a difference, or how she explains it. Either way, Marriott's points book is pretty blatant that there are two separate inventory pools and that an owner pulls out of the pool that coincides with their ownership....either election points for legacy enrolled owners or trust inventory for trust owners.

That's a good plan. I'm going to try and call her today. I do remember that the rep at the presentation said we had the option of buying more points--at like $10.22/pt (is this the price you talked about that is going up--and were these actually Trust points?)! My understanding was that these points would just be added to the 6500 we had for our 3 properties--so it still doesn't sound like they were "Trust" points, just more (what I now know are) exchange points. And, no, weren't given a points book--just one that marked all the resorts as "E" or " and ET" (Exchange and/or Trust--I presume). I did notice that there were some resorts only listed "E" but not "T"--which I also assumed meant that those resorts were essentially sold out and didn't have any trust inventory (I also know that none of the European or Asian resorts are on board as yet and that you have to go through II to trade into these). So it would be great if you could send me that PDF file. How best can I get my email address to you?

The points that Marriott is selling now are all Trust points. Since they no longer sell weeks that can be elected into exchange/election points, no one can purchase any more of those. The $10.22 price per point is the price I heard was increasing. My contact at Marriott (she is not a sales rep, she works for the legal offices for MVCI at their corporate headquarters) says she thinks they will go up almost $2.00 per point. But nothing is set in stone and even she thinks that may be just rumor. Who knows? I hear Disney is around $110 per point. Yuck. In all fairness though, everything goes up, I guess.

Try to email me at hope 7982 at american on line dot com and I will send you the points book.

You are right about the resorts that only have an E. They were sold out and so no inventory at that property was put into the T bucket. I think as the Ritz joins into the book a new book will be published that will have resorts that only have the T on it.

My big selling point was that I could have the best of both worlds having both the E and the T inventory access. New Marriott owners will only have the T and old Marriott owners that do not choose to own the Trust will only have the E. I have both and so far am extremely happy.

I think the biggest problem owners are facing is the simple fact that they don't want to spend any more money on timeshares. And I can understand that. I understand how you feel about Maintenance fees. I hate them too. I'm at $2400 for both my Legacy and my Trust. But there is a way to transfer points to other owners and get money for them so that you can off set your maintenance fee. I came across a website that has the steps to take to do that. My rep (actual sales rep this time) showed it to me. I've been checking it out and so far it seems legit and a great way for me to get rid of any points I don't use for a little cash. I can email you that link as well.

I will send a test email shortly after sending this off. I haven't heard back from my Rep as yet, but I left a message for her to give me a call. It sounds like the Sales Rep may have been handing me a line about purchasing the points to add them to our 6500 points we get for a trade on our three properties. From what you say they would go into a separate pot of Trust points. Sounds like Marriott may need to do a better job schooling their Sales Reps in the future....I do have one interesting Marriott story to share with you. My husband and I had two weeks that we needed to use and a ton of Marriott Reward points, so I got a travel package (which we love!) and wanted to go to Phuket--but they had no availability, so we went to Marbella and Mallorca instead. We arrived in Heathrow on December 26th, and while waiting for our connecting flight to Marbella, we watched as the tsunami hit Phuket! I guess it was just not our time to go! Let me know if you don't receive my email. Many thanks!

Just a quick note to let you know I got a reply that says the message has been delayed getting to you. I'll let you know if I get a further message that says it wasn't delivered.

FYI, still no indication that my email went through. Also forgot to mention that our three properties net us 330,000 MRP every other year--more than enough points for those 5 - 7 day world trips.

Well, I did hear back from my Rep and she did reinforce that there could be Trust inventory and no Exchange inventory. She did also send me the point book in a PDF file--and I'm assuming it the same one you have.

She did say that you could combine a week's stay using both Exchange Points and Trust Points (say 3 day using trust points and 4 days using Exchange points). If you have both, your Rep can do all the planning for you so you don't have that to worry about! It is very clear that Marriott wants to eventually control of the inventory for their resorts and take it away fro II. Their hope is that everyone will be in the Destination program so you would deposit with them (changing for Exchange Points) and NOT deposit your weeks with II. As the Points Adviser, she passed me on to said, "Depositing your weeks with II would be you last option if you want to exchange into another Marriott property."