General Discussion

Ripoff - Marriott Vacation Club Destinations Program - New Point System

Feb 17, 2012

Read this email for what a rip off Marriott is. THe salesman told me the points do not expire, that is why we bought. BEWARE They expire and they do NOT notify you though they claim they do. James, The person you transferred me to was prepared with an attitude and a rude voice to inform me that in all the ( how long could it be?) time she had worked for Marriott she HAD never seen anyone get their points back. Obviously, this is a common complaint!And that basically, I was sent the emails and if I did not get them, it was NOT Marriott's fault, but somehow, something I had done. I guess I must have specifically blocked emails from Marriott in my sleep or something. She said I MUST have gotten them and therefore called me a liar. She obviously has no ability for working with people and should NOT be in customer service. The sneer in her voice came through the phone as did the posturing I am sure she was doing and the eye rolling. I asked her to transfer me to her manager and she said "I can, but she will say the same thing" (basically neener- neener -neener). I told her she was too young to be in customer service and she hung up on me.So, I am sad to inform you that you are mistaken if you think the customer service at Marriott's is still on the caliber you believe it is. It has fallen and is now on caliber with the politicians we hear on the news regularly and the housing loan lenders from the last few years. My husband says HE also was under the impression that the points did not expire so you might want to be more emphatic on that point as we both thought the REASON to convert was because the points then did not expire! He spoke to you on the phone in the past I believe.

You are a leftover from a better day I am afraid. So,we lose our points and are simply screwed. I will not reinvest in more points and will probably sell what I have because I prefer to use cash to travel. It does NOT expire. Good luck in the future. Selling points plans for more money than we already paid for the expensive timeshare that have NO additional value appears fruitless to me, I believe we were taken by the Marriott Company. What A RACKET(systematized element of LEGAL organized crime though). I hope you at least have a retirement coming in the future but doubt it. How very sad and disturbing. How could I possibly enjoy staying at a Marriott hotel ever again?

Thank you for your kindness and willingness to actually talk to me and be human. No one else there has been. Sincerely,


Nancy T.
Feb 18, 2012

I soooo sympathize. I got the same line from Greg at owner services. he said "getting your money back is NOT an option so why don't you just shut up and let me tell you the best thing you can do with them. i heard the eyerolling as well.

you can't sell the points (or trade them or rent them either). they are useless! what a fool i was to buy them. now i am stuck with them.


Linda F.
Feb 19, 2012

I am surprised by some of this. We buy points, are provided detailed documentation, have a 10 day period to back away, and then complain that Marriott won't refund our money???? The same thing happens when you by a car, a house, or any other major purchase. It seems unreasonable to be angry at Marriott for this.

The points are not useless - unless you choose to let them sit on the shelf and expire. Have you thought about using the points to acquire a few days or a week to rent out thru Redweek? You could also acquire a few weekdays to add to an existing Marriott reservation, carry them forward, etc. You are not without viable options.


Den
Feb 19, 2012

you realllly do not understand. I was lied to or things were not told to me or we would never have bought them in the first place! i am a single senior. i like hotels in world capitals. i don't need or want a condo. and i like the free airfare. no one pays free airfare to get you to a condo with your "valuable" points! i first bought 4 weeks 21 years ago before ground breaking in Palm Desert. i sold them for more money than i paid for them! you can't sell points. then I bought two weeks in florida because i get more points to trade every year for airfare and hotels. i am a points hog. i currently have 800,000 marriott points. these destination points are truly WORTHLESS to me. and the salesman KNEW that. i clearly told him how i use my weeks and how i like to travel. he sold me by telling me i could take my grandson to africa on safari. but i could NEVER do that with points because it takes more points than i could accumulate in three years using past, present and future points which is all you're allowed to do. he did not tell me that. i had no reason to believe that the points would not accumulate forever until i had enough to use them for what i wanted. my other points don't. and i could have taken my grandson on a heck of a safari for $22,000! the only way i discovered the way things REALLY work is when i got a pop up when i went in to pay my annual dues 3 months after purchase that told me i needed to designate how i wanted to allocate my points. and when i went there, it told me i had to forward them or use them and if i didn't use them next year, they would be taken from me for no compensation! after i just paid $22,000 for them! that is soooo unbelievable to me even now as i write this. i don't own anything! that is stealing as far as i am concerned. since i will NEVER go to a condo by 2014, i'll have lost $3900 in maintenance fees and $22,000 and they'll just take them back and laugh themselves all the way to the bank at my expense. i already have pre planned and partially pre paid vacations thru 2014. i'm going to italy, then going to india, then machu picchu peru. all staying in HOTELS. THIS is why i'm upset!!! i threw $26,000 down the toilet and get to keep paying $1300 per year for the privilege of having salt rubbed in my wounds. even if i wanted to go somewhere where there is a condo, who will pay for the airfare? like i said, i am STUCK with these USELESS points.


Linda F.

Last edited by lfrappia on Feb 19, 2012 10:49 AM

Feb 19, 2012

when the same thing happens with ANY OTHER major puchase like a car or house or major appliance or whatever, you can sell them, trade them or rent them. like i said, these points are WORTHLESS!


Linda F.
Feb 19, 2012

Let me see if I got this right. You sell your house to someone and they decide after the closing that they don't like the neighborhood and/or the house. The buyer saw the house, you made disclosures as appropriate, the buyer could back out of the transaction for a few days, etc. Would you refund their money?

When do you take some responsibility? Are you alledging duress or that you were mentally incompetent?

As I said before, all is not lost - you can get value from using the points.


Den

Last edited by dennish144 on Feb 19, 2012 11:34 AM

Feb 19, 2012

Ifrappia, if you are premiere status, meaning the points you purchased and the points each week is worth in the destination system is over 6500, then you can take 65% of the destination points you just purchased and turn them into Marriott Reward Points at a rate of 32-1. So if you have 1000 destination trust points, you can turn them into 32,000 Marriott reward points. This conversion can be done every year. If you are not premiere, then only 50% of the Trust points can be converted every year. As for the Africa trip, you can do it if the points you purchased and the destination points your other weeks can get equal to 4000 club points a year. The Africa trip is 12,000 club points but they have a shorter one for 9000 I think. That means if you have access to 3000 points minimum a year with banking and borrowing, you can go to Africa with your grandson. As for the other points that can't be converted into MRP, look into the city packages. Not the best value, but at least you will get some usage out of it. And those are in Hotels in the city, not condos.

Or you can go to the rental board and transfer them to another owner. As long as you charge $.41 per point, you are breaking even on the maintanence and taxes. Most transfers are going for .55-.65 per point, which can give you a small profit on it.

Hope this gives you a few ideas for useage out of your purchase. Just remember the deadline to convert Trust points to MRP points is different than the deadline to convert your ownership weeks into MRP. I think it's March 31 versus Dec 31 for the week.


G333 S.
Feb 19, 2012

I am now renting points and property which I do not use. Seems to be working. I had a salesperson in St. Thomas who almost sold me, but when I said no, they said I would have to sit there for another hour to receive my gift. Never had that happen before.


Joanne B.
Feb 19, 2012

YOUR RIGHT, DEALING IN POINTS IS LOSING PROPOSITION. FOLLOW MY ADVICE AND SCHEDULE YOUR CONDO WEEKS DURING THEIR HIGHEST PRIORITY WEEKS, AND THEN RENT THEM THRU REDWEEK.COM OR TRADE THEM WITH INTERVAL INTL., PROVIDED THEY CAN GET YOU THE WEEKS AND LOCATION THAT YOU WANT. BEEN DOING THIS FOR THE LAST 6 YEARS--WHO NEEDS MARRIOTT POINTS?


Jim B.
Feb 20, 2012

I am going to have to echo the thoughts of others. You have had substantial time to read over the documents or give them to a lawyer or someone you trust to review what you had prior to the deadline that committed you to the program. That is not Marriott's fault. You have accountability in this as well.

You are not alone is feeling that the developer or salesperson are to blame when you are not happy with what you have bought. The bottom line is that people need to READ their contracts. They don't and then want to blame someone. Also, people do not research prior to their purchase of a timeshare. They don't understand the commitment they are getting into with the increasing maintenance fees. I know I didn't. I remember that the salesman told me they would go up but he said very little each year. What a joke that's been. However, they never know how much they are going to go up each year.

We have to accept some responsibility for our purchases. People buy used cars all of the time and if they are unhappy with their purchase they don't have a cooling off period at least in California we don't with car purchases.

Marriott still has a good product, but they are selling it differently. Learn more about your purchases and how to work the system. You can still have great vacations with your grands. I certainly plan on doing it with mine.


Charles S.
Feb 20, 2012

WHEN I MAKE ANY OTHER MAJOR PURCHASE, I CAN SELL IT OR RENT IT OR TRADE IT. IE: A HOUSE OR A CAR. WHEN SOMEONE LIES TO YOU AND THEN YOU GET BLAMED FOR NOT READING 50 PAGES OF DOCUMENTS IN FINE PRINT WITHOUT ANY GLASSES AND HE GAVE ME ABOUT 10 MINUTES TO DO SO, THAT IS LOUSY. I WAS NEVER TOLD I HAD THREE DAYS TO CANCEL EITHER. I WOULD HAVE PERHAPS TAKEN THE TIME TO DO SO. I CALLED THE VERY MINUTE I FOUND OUT THAT THE POINTS WERE NOT ABLE TO BE ACCUMLATED. HOW CAN ANYONE JUSTIFY "SELLING" SOMETHING TO YOU WHEN YOU DON'T OWN ANYTHING? THEY JUST TAKE IT BACK FOR NOTHING! THIS IS NOT MY FAULT. AND I REFUSE TO BE BLAMED FOR A SALEMAN'S LACK OF TRAINING OR AT WORST, DELIBERATE FRAUD IN SELLING ME THESE POINTS WHICH ARE WORTHLESS TO ME.


Linda F.
Feb 20, 2012

NO I WOULD NOT REFUND THEIR MONEY. BUT THEY COULD SELL THE HOUSE AND GET THEIR MONEY BACK!!! THIS IS NOT THE SAME THING AT ALL AS WHAT I AM FACED WITH. THE REST OF MY LIFE PAYING $1300 PER YEAR FOR SOMETHING USELESS. CAN'T GET RID OF IT. MARRIOTT WON'T SELL IT. I ASKED. THEY WILL ONLY SELL THEIR OWN. I WOULD TAKE A LOSS TO GET RID OF THESE. DO YOU WANT TO BUY THEM IF YOU THINK THEY ARE SO GREAT?


Linda F.
Feb 20, 2012

It is sad that Ifrappia is so disappointed with the decision to sign for Destination points. Such buyers remorse could have been prevented with minimal due diligence.

We have been owners for six years. We are happy with the seven Marriott weeks we own, with the enrollment of our weeks in Destinations, and with our Destination points purchase last fall. We understand the programs and receive helpful advice from Marriott reps. Certainly, this high end approach to vacations is not for everyone, but we (including our children and grandchildren) are happy we bought in.


Den
Feb 20, 2012

Why don't you post your Dest Points for sale on Redweek. At the right price, you may have some buyers. It looks like you have 3,000 pts (based on your $1,300 in maint fees). Is this true?


Den

Last edited by dennish144 on Feb 20, 2012 05:15 PM

Feb 21, 2012

you obviously use the condos. i have been told that for people who go to a condo every year, this is a decent plan. i have never been to a condo. i bought site unseen over the internet just to get the marriott rewards points. as for trading these points for marriott points, that is insane. i get 220,000 per year for dues of $1600 for which i paid $28,000 for BOTH OF THEM. and so i get 32,000 for $22,000 plus $1300 per year. and no free airfare to get to the condo like i do with marriott rewards points? as i have said before, these points are USELESS tome. i'm glad they're working out great for you. your travel style is obviously MUCH different than mine. I have my vacations booked right now through 2014. there is no way i can use these points. if i had been told that they expired i would have known immediately that i could not use them and did not want them. i can't use points until 2014 even if i did want to go to a condo.


Linda F.
Feb 21, 2012

Good luck, I hope you find an acceptable resolution to your problem. You should be enjoying your travels.


Den

Last edited by dennish144 on Feb 21, 2012 06:43 PM

Feb 22, 2012

We have owned a timeshare with Marriott for 15 years and have highly recommended them to friends, until now. After joining the Destinations program. I found, like others, that I could only stay 5 days at most destinations for "traded" legacy points under the Destinations system. That is, I could compromise when and where I went, or pay around 10K extra. After deciding to do so and sitting through a high pressure sales presentation (another new 'feature') we decided to purchase enough extra points to allow a full week. THEN after investigating the literature after purchase, we found that the two programs are NOT compatible. Fortunately it was still in the three day rescission period and we cancelled. We will continue to use Interval International to go on our vacations, let the Destinations membership lapse (cut our losses), and probably avoid Marriott properties unless we use Rewards points. Too bad as it was such a friendly, "you're in the family" program. No more.


Richard L.
Feb 22, 2012

I AM SOOOO HAPPY FOR YOU THAT YOU CANCELLED IN TIME! HAPPY TRAVELS


Linda F.
Feb 23, 2012

Richard's actions validate the assertion that one can listen to the presentation, sign the contracts, review the materials, and then exercise the right of rescission. You get your money back and walk away. This is no reason to bad mouth the Marriott product, it just wasn't for you.


Den
Feb 23, 2012

Hello Everyone--

I've been following this blog for the past 9 months. My husband and I have owned 3 properties with MVC for the better part of 20 years now. We have loved the experience and have had many wonderful vacations--all at Marriott Resorts. No nasty surprises there--you always know what you are going to get. As we all know, the program has changed--and the biggest change to me is that it is really no longer a Marriott product--it only gets to use the Marriott name. My husband and I decided to buy into the Destinations Program as Legacy Owners, and not buy any Trust Points (way too expensive on a retiree's budget!). We have a total of 6500 points with our three properties. We realize there may be limitations, but we still have the option to trade every other year for a total of 330,000 MR Points--enough to still provide us a great world trip every other year. I talked to our "Marriott" Rep--really our MVC Rep!--who told us that when we do our trade for 6,500 points this year that they will not expire until December 31, 2013, but that we have the option to let them know by June 30th, 2013 so that we could roll them over for an additional year so that we can add another 6,500 for a total of 13,000 points--which would be enough for one of the World Traveler trips--or several pretty nice family trips with our kids and grandkids. No, it's not perfect, we don't have ALL possible choices, but the ones we do have still makes it good enough for us. We are both retired so we probably won't be taking these trips after another ten or twelve years, but our Marriott Rewards Points offer us plently of opportunities for travel and we have squirreled away over 200,000 air miles in two frequently flier accounts (thanks to Marriott Rewards Points). This April we will be going to Berlin and Munich and will be staying at Marriotts--all with Marriott Rewards Points. The point is, everyone needs to know where and how you want to travel and make the program work for you. Change is the only thing I am sure of in this world. There is a lot of ire going around out there about how this program has changed, with even the threat of a Class Action Lawsuit. But I will bet you that all of their bases have been covered over the year to insure that when the change did come there would be no grounds for a lawsuit. I heard from a sales rep about 4 - 5 years ago that Marriott was looking to end their relationship with II, so we saw this comin¨À but didn't know how it would all play out. My main complaint, if I have one, is that the sales reps are either a) not instructed very well in the fine points of this program or b) are a highly unethical lot that only want to make a commission! If it wasn't for g333s who participated in this blog, I would still be frustrated and in the dark about how to work my way through this program. So thank you once again, g333s!! I do understand everyone's frustration--I've been there--but we just came to the realization that it's time to swallow hard, take a deep breath, and make lemonade out of the lemons.


Kathryn M.

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