Royal HOliday is a scam

tonys382 wrote:

I reached out to DONP196 asking for more info and what happened to them . There has been no response. Im now wondering if this form has been developed by Royal Holiday under some cloud as a means to review our complaints. Ive been a police officer for 40 yrs and yes I was scammed too. Something doesn't sit right with me.

Having participated in these Redweek forums for nearly a decade now, I am not aware of any means or mechanism to "reach out" to RedWeek forum participants individually. That observation aside, I sincerely doubt that Royal Holiday had / has anything whatsoever with this (or any other) RedWeek forum. Why would they even bother?

The sad and simple truth of the matter is that there is virtually no leverage by any U.S. citizen over any operation based and conducted within Mexico --- and you can rest assured that the Mexican sales parasites are well aware of that fact. I submit that the resolution success described above by markf522 is definitely a very rare exception. The Mexican parasites likely just decided to grease that particular squeaky wheel, knowing full well that most "customers" would never bother to pursue (or pay for) legal representation --- and would have no jurisdiction over them if they did. Those thieving parasites probably just decided to cut markf522 loose rather than deal with even the remote possibility of intervention by PROFECO. They know there are always lots of other Gringos ready and willing to pony up those U.S. dollars and sign on the dotted line.

Thanks for your reply and sharing your info. I suspect this is the avenue we will have to take. Investigating this is nearly impossible due to cost plus it's in a Foreign Country. We do have liaison officers in theses countries but their purpose is mainly to gather and share intelligence. This is a civil matter unfortunately . Short of getting a thousand of us together and have 20-20 involved maybe we would get a solution. I hardly suspect we will get our money back. Worst case senario they amend their company to avoid us . I was thinking that all travel companies inform travelers of this company however they will be leaving themselves op for lawsuits . I will be travelling back to the DR in the near future with 100 people for an event . The word will be put out about Royal Holiday. God forbid the airline rep in the DR suggest we attend a briefing with them as they usually do. I will attend and become quite vocal . I no longer have immunity but maybe a major international incident may bring this forward.

What country you guys believe rh business is all about? Switzerland, Mexico, D.R, the Bahamas, some other? .. When it bases on a system.. and hotels like Wyndham involved, like in the Bahamas where those parasites got us hooked into this system.. Im aware its Mexican based, but how on earth they got all those 'parties' involved in other countries? And how they manage to sell lwgally these memberships all over the world? Theres still customer protection.. rights, laws..

Rh is based on a scam, because f.e. Im finnish, and they sold thiss membership to finnish people. I dont believe thats anyway legal act to do by them. Im willing to join any investigation if needed.

sarip4 wrote:

...why cant police start investigate business like this?

It's really quite simple. The laws of the country / state where the transaction actually occurs prevails over all else. It doesn't particularly matter where the customer (victim?) resides. Jurisdiction is what matters.

There are relatively strong and enforceable laws for transactions conducted and contracts executed here in the U.S., including state laws that allow for cancellation and 100% refund within a specified period of time (3-10 days, depending on the individual state). However, Mexico and the Dominican Republic are a very different story. The "legal systems" there are essentially just a bad joke. Not the least bit humorous, but a joke nonetheless.

Jurisdiction is all that matters. So, am i able to sue rh in Finland? Like you guys would sue rh in US? Im Finnish speaking, so.. Only Finnish speaking countries' jurisdiction?? Meaning only Finland? Im sure he laws would protect me as a finnish speaking, only because of the language, right? I dont even understand English properly. For me its a joke to sell these things to different speaking countries' citizens.

sarip4, we didn’t get the money we had already paid (about $3,200) to RH :/ but we were happy to avoid having to pay over $30,000 in annual fees alone. So that was def worth it for us!

Yes Ken, jurisdiction takes precedent on where the offence( scam) took place. In Canada , offenders can waive jurisdiction on condition of a guilty plea in another province however this is for Criminal Code offences.

Under the Consumer protection act in Canada we have 90 days to appeal for a refund . Im not familiar to how the court system operates in the D.R . and secondly I have some apprehensions if a judgement could be obtained in the D.R. on a Mexican based company,notwithstanding the appeal process.

Im appalled that these resorts would allow them to set up shop but it is evident that R.H is paying good $$$ to these resorts to operate. Im sure their overhead is low based on the cost of living for their employees. Dont kid yourself the resort itself is resolved of any blame knowing full well of the scam.

I recall seeing at least 20 R.H. reps. daily combing the resort for potential clients. The day after I signed ,one came up to me and offered day trips and cocaine. I played along and having been with Drug Enforcement for 20 yrs I was curious and somewhat familiar with their local prices. I laughed as he was asking 60% more over market value for street level prices. I did report him and they acknowledged he was involved in this activity but had warned him to stop. All they did was remove him and relocated him to another resort.

Needless to say I have refrained from paying my annual fee and continue to get Collection threats as they have increased my penalty up to 30% .

tonys382 wrote:

...Needless to say I have refrained from paying my annual fee and continue to get Collection threats as they have increased my penalty up to 30% .

I suspect that you realize you are never going to see a single Loonie back from whatever you have paid these scammers to date, no matter to whom you might complain. The laws in Canada (or the U.S. --- or Finland) are simply irrelevant in regard to a transaction conducted in the Dominican Republic (or Mexico). Again, it's all about jurisdiction. The laws (..such as they are) in DR or Mexico are all that really matter, regardless of the country of residency of the beguiled "customer".

As to jurisdiction, the good news is that the converse is equally true. The thieving parasites in DR (or Mexico) have absolutely no leverage regarding "collections" in regard to Canadian or U.S. (or Finnish) citizens, so their late charges and interest and "penalties" are completely meaningless and entirely unenforceable. They will certainly keep all of the money paid to them date, but at some point they will otherwise simply give up and go away. There are just too many other new "potential customers" from whom they can extract money to bother attempting to collect more money from those who have now belatedly discovered that the Royal Holiday "product" is essentially just a load of crap.

Bo one can take any ones rights away.. I believe i understand juridiction, but as a Finnish i cant go to court in different speaking country.. Under different lawsystems, right? Isnt that a crime if the seller takes juristic rights away?

sarip4 wrote:

No one can take any ones rights away.. I believe i understand juridiction, but as a Finnish i cant go to court in different speaking country.. Under different lawsystems, right? Isnt that a crime if the seller takes juristic rights away?

No disrespect or offense intended, but I do not believe that you really understand or grasp the concept of jurisdiction at all. Maybe it's a language barrier situation.

This is not a matter of "taking anyone's rights away". Very simply stated, it's the laws and legal system which exist where the transactions occur that prevail over all else. If we're talking about Mexico or Dominican Republic as the places where these unfortunate RH transactions occurred, then it is the laws of those places that apply. It does not matter one bit where you (...or I, or anyone else) reside. Unfortunately, the laws and legal systems of both Mexico and Dominican Republic, as already stated, are basically just a bad joke, providing no meaningful consumer protection of any actual use or value.

I have personally prosecuted a fair number of cases in court (but only in the U.S.) over the years. Believe me --- jurisdiction matters.

Ken, thank you for your openess, honesty and your legal incite . Unfortunately , what Im most mad about is myself knowing that this was too good to be true and have no one else to blame. Court cost, legal fees , delays, appeals ,travel and the uncertainty of winning weighs weather spending 15 K is worth getting back 20 k. Im not sure you can respond to this or provide with with your expertise is if there is any legal authority for the authorities in the D.R. /Mexico to place those who have withhold payment captive until payment is made. Personally I suspect there is no legal authority to do so since it is a civil matter. It would be like me not renewing my golf membership at Augusta and the Sheriffs holding me hostage.

Appreciate your comments.

Thanks

Tony

Ken:

Does that mean.. About jurisdiction.. That f.e my case when I bought this rh -membership in the Bahamas, its them.. The court of the Bahamas ... or the police? Even when I blame Isle of Man people on a different scam on this? They collected my money... What about laws mentioned in the contract? Cayman Island law or Arizona? How jurisdiction works in that case? Can I sue Isle of Man people in Arizona (according to my contract)? Im not American...

I understand that my contract is not even made to EU -citizen but American... what about jurisdiction? And does transaction mean also money payments? I made a contract between me and Isle on Man.. (written document), but its none existing... Only Mexico exists for real as a service center. RH should also exist in Spain, but in that case, its odd to use different laws also in the contract.. and Spain is not the place even collected money. Or is it Spain ---- the jurisdiction court etc? Its different language... Spanish.

I understand its all about the Bahamas... and the contract is meaningless... thats the way I understand all this what you Ken explained about jurisdiction, but... Just like to know about this payment contract -part also. I never signed it in the Bahamas. I didnt own the credit card at the time, just debit, and didnt want to sign it for that reason. Wanted to make sure, Im safe.

And this Switzerland... I know about tax avoidance part on this. And my payment collector was in Isle of Man in my case (according to contract should have been in Arizona though). And operating rules states that swiss law is the law.... lack of english, forgot the words.. Im aware how these laws are abused in our contracts... So, am I understanding it correctly if this is a fraud case (fraudulent contract) and jurisdiction the Bahamas. What about the hotel there? Wyndham? Are they responsible for any of this? It happened at their lobby....

La

Even this tax avoidance part is illegal in many countries (Id be in a big trouble if I had bank account in Cayman Island, its very strick here), and thats the reason I was put out of the system by trustees, I believe (I was mentioned to be Middle East resident in the contract, maybe thats why they collected my money by Isle of Man??). All was so weird, and when I read the contract back home with time.. the lack of english made it so slow in the pitch at Wyndham... well.. well.. Im as Finnish as it could be, so does my daughters I travelled with at the time.. blond. I understood the fraud.

And I even made a contract between me and Holiday Clubs, Cayman Island... But nothing else except a shell company.

Trustees... I dont know if this all was nothing but a shell company -business basically... Except those parasites and Mexico. Theres nothing I can prove.. And no way David to win a Goliath.

tonys382 wrote:

Im not sure you can respond to this or provide with with your expertise is if there is any legal authority for the authorities in the D.R. /Mexico to place those who have withhold payment captive until payment is made. Personally I suspect there is no legal authority to do so since it is a civil matter.

I cannot knowledgeably speak to details of the sorry excuses for a "legal system" in Mexico and / or the Dominican Republic.

That much being clearly stated, I believe that an outstanding debt is no basis for physical detention, but that is a personal (not a legal) opinion. However, you would almost certainly be unwelcome to stay at any Royal Holiday associated facility while there are unpaid fees associated with your name / account.

I really dont get this. Why rh is allowed to do all illegal.... whatsoever? So, it doesnt matter what the contract is all about, what methods used in those pitches, but those parasites win no matter what because its all about DR and Mexico? They ecen can use US laws by doing... again whatsoever?

sarip4 wrote:

I really dont get this. Why rh is allowed to do all illegal.... whatsoever? So, it doesnt matter what the contract is all about, what methods used in those pitches, but those parasites win no matter what because its all about DR and Mexico? They ecen can use US laws by doing... again whatsoever?

I'm sorry, but I cannot intelligently respond further to your posts on this subject. I realize that English is not your primary language, but you have also named at least a half-dozen different countries and jurisdictions, all with distinctly different laws and legal systems --- including Switzerland, Bahamas, Grand Cayman, Arizona, Isle of Man, etc. --- and you reportedly live in Finland. I wish you well, but I cannot even begin to decipher all of that disparate input. The only thing I can tell you with any certainty is that whatever money you have paid to Royal Holiday is surely now gone, never to return.

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