Timeshares is good investment or not.

LoL,

I think most everyone who said timeshares are not a good investment were people who bought from the developer, where you lose tremendous value when you sell. Most everyone who said it was a good investment bought resale where, aside from bad economic years like the last 9 months of 2008, you can sell your timeshare close to or more than you bought it for. Both arguments are fairly correct in their context, but people rarely make this distinction when discussing the investment merrits of timeshares.

I am annoyed maintenance and special assessments rise as fast as medical premiums. I feel the resort manager has less incentive to run an efficient operation since the more they can bill the more they earn. I just made a pretty general statement, but one example: - DRI (Diamond Resorts) this year increased most owner transfers from $0 to $250. Supposedly this was to cover the cost of processing transfers. Fine, why then did my maintenance fee not get reduced since previously that's where the cost of transfers were funded? And why did DRI reduce the transfer staff from 3 people to 2, and when (currently) the 2nd person went on maternity leave are they running the department with only 1 person? There are a few exceptions to my example (Polo Towers properties for example are handled by a separate group). But my point should be clear: There is ALWAYS an explanation as to why the fees are increased so dramatically but when you look at the detail and the overall picture, a very large portion of the increase is not actually benefitting owners the way we are told it is.

Sunterra was recently bought out by DRI and I haven't yet seen or heard of any improvements they have made to the properties I own other than to continue the refurb schedule the former owner had put in place. They did however raise the maintenance fee by over $200. They are also actively and annoyingly trying to get weeks owners to convert to points. I haven't been to our resort (Greensprings) since the takeover but I better see improvements for the higher fees when I return this summer. As for an investment, I never bought with that purpose in mind - we loved the destination and bought a great priced resale. The best I hope to do the years we do not use it is to break even.

I actually used this site - it has a good reputation in the industry for buying/selling timeshares. There are also some links (on this site) to businesses that will assist with the closing.

However, as I stated earlier - bought (1) "Red" week from a developer in 2001(for a property in Myrtle Beach) for $10,000. Sold it for $1,000. After transfer fees and some closing costs (buyer paid most of these) I walked away with an $750 check in my wallet.

Just nice to be out from under the annual contract. Don't think I will get back in as an owner. Too much inventory on the market and easier to make a "deal" on a last minute rental.

Actually you are very wrong....about owning a timeshare...right about the economy. I have personally owned over 1500 timeshares and know the worth and how to use them to get paid vacations... so how can that be bad no matter what the economy? It is great... and even MORE important in this bad economy. I do understand that MOST people buy the wrong timeshares at wrong prices, so they then would not believe timeshares are a good investment.

I am ONLY saying they are good IF you buy right ones...right prices...then USE the system. I help lots of people with that, have a book on timeshares, but also know most people don't believe me, or understand how to do it even after explanation.

1. The economy has nothing to do with it. A. Yes even if you bought the right price...prices are lower...but no one saw this coming, so there is nothing you can do about it. B. Yes if you bought wrong ones and paid too much you are hurting. C. Prices are RELATIVE ! IF you bought from developer then you REALLY got scammed. You can always find a wide range of prices. D. And like I say if you are getting low cost vacations, and /or renting weeks, you save money or make money...I do.

You are wrong. I MAKE money owning timeshares AND SAVE thousands on vacations. BEST thing I ever did in my life. I have traveled all over the world... not free... I MAKE money.

You are right... 99% or more people do not know how to work the system or what to buy or at what price. So, it isn't easy, but they absoluely ARE a great investment.

ALSO... whether timeshares, home, stocks...it is EXACTLY THE SAME DEAL. Houses are considered an investment. NOT if you paid too much and lost money.

Stocks are considered an investment. BUT NOT if you bought the wrong ones and paid too much.

I lost money on stocks 16 years ago... I found timeshares and have INVESTED my money in them, and it is a guaranteed return (IF you know what you are doing...that IS the key... same as you know what you are doing in ANY job you have, business, or investment)

What too many people are saying on THIS topic is that they don't know how to work the system...so never even try to learn.

ghhww wrote:

Actually you are very wrong....about owning a timeshare...right about the economy. I have personally owned over 1500 timeshares

Wow, I'd hate to pay maintenance fees on 1500 timeshares. If you have owned 1500 timeshares, when do you have time to make a living or IS YOUR LIVING selling timeshares? It would seem so .... shill, shill, shill.

jayjay wrote:

Wow, I'd hate to pay maintenance fees on 1500 timeshares. If you have owned 1500 timeshares, when do you have time to make a living or IS YOUR LIVING selling timeshares? It would seem so .... shill, shill, shill.

Very funny about the book comment. I have sold a lot of books and also have helped thousands of people work the system, just as I have for 15 or more years.

When you save many thousands on vacations and make money on some rentals obviously it more than pays for all the maint fees. You don't get it... or want to obviously.

I thought I was adding some experience and wisdom to a discussion about how to use timeshares the way they should be used, to get great low cost vacations.

I have not posted on any board for a long time since I got sick of comments like that 10 years ago by small minded people and idiots who like to run other people down anonomously.

There are lots of people on chat boards who just love to post comments to run people down and drive them off the chat boards... reminds me of high school and all the crap adolescents do to each other.

But not to worry, I have had enough of your crap and sarcasm.

We began buying 15 years ago. No fixed weeks (floating / any week) and now own in Las Vegas, Cancun, Orlando and Puerto Villarta - for a total of 8 weeks of 2 and 3 bedroom units. An investment - no, but something that we can share with our children and grandchildren. We bought several through redweek at much less than the original cost, but they have gone up in price. It is an investment in family, not in making money.

ghhww wrote:

Very funny about the book comment. I have sold a lot of books and also have helped thousands of people work the system, just as I have for 15 or more years.

When you save many thousands on vacations and make money on some rentals obviously it more than pays for all the maint fees. You don't get it... or want to obviously.

I thought I was adding some experience and wisdom to a discussion about how to use timeshares the way they should be used, to get great low cost vacations.

I have not posted on any board for a long time since I got sick of comments like that 10 years ago by small minded people and idiots who like to run other people down anonomously.

There are lots of people on chat boards who just love to post comments to run people down and drive them off the chat boards... reminds me of high school and all the crap adolescents do to each other.

But not to worry, I have had enough of your crap and sarcasm.

I can certainly see why you quit posting on forums 10 years ago due to negative comments by other posters.

I do realize that you are a shill trying to SELL SOMETHING on this board ..... as Mike stated, probably a book telling people how to 'work the timeshare system'.

What may have worked for you in the past will no longer work for you in the future as any type of travel, including timeshare travel, is in the tank. People are concentrating on the big 3 for survival (roof over head, food, transportation to work) not travel and/or renting/buying timeshares.

It was posted on another board that Harborside Atlantis, Paradise Island, Nassau Bahamas recently laid off 800 employees due to a very slow economy and lack of check-ins. Westgate has also laid off thousands of workers and the domino effect will continue.

Harborside is probably the largest and most popular resort in the world. This just goes to show how the tourism and travel industry is hurting bigtime.

Timeshares have limits on their use to most owners. There is a period of time when individuals and families have the ability to pay and utilize timeshare occupancy. Changes in circumstances most often results in failure to make use of those annually available. Neither the timeshare owners or the travel agencies to which owners belong offer or assist in this matter. They continue to collect maintenace and membership feees. In addition, neither the resort owners or travel agencies offer any assistance in transfering or disposing of weeks no longer being utilized. The contracts made between timeshare owners and the host resorts are composed to protect the home resorts. Other then on-site aamenities, there is little the resort owners do in assisting timeshare owners facing problems of continued use. As an investment, timeshares result in accumulated financial losses. The only ones that get acceptable returns on timeshares are the resort builders, owners and timeshare/travel agents. The costs in time and fees transfering timeshare weeks to another owner adds to investment loss. TIMSHARES ARE NOT A FINANCIAL INVESTMENT !!

clifforddw wrote:

Timeshares have limits on their use to most owners. There is a period of time when individuals and families have the ability to pay and utilize timeshare occupancy. Changes in circumstances most often results in failure to make use of those annually available. Neither the timeshare owners or the travel agencies to which owners belong offer or assist in this matter. They continue to collect maintenace and membership feees. In addition, neither the resort owners or travel agencies offer any assistance in transfering or disposing of weeks no longer being utilized. The contracts made between timeshare owners and the host resorts are composed to protect the home resorts. Other then on-site aamenities, there is little the resort owners do in assisting timeshare owners facing problems of continued use. As an investment, timeshares result in accumulated financial losses. The only ones that get acceptable returns on timeshares are the resort builders, owners and timeshare/travel agents. The costs in time and fees transfering timeshare weeks to another owner adds to investment loss. TIMSHARES ARE NOT A FINANCIAL INVESTMENT !!

Exactly, once you buy a timeshare week it's yours for life and all the fees associated with it until it can be sold. It's even part of your estate once you die.

Jayjay says "at death your timeshare is part of your estate". This is not necessarily true. I recently sold a timeshare in Colorado where my buyers wanted the deed prepared showing the purchasers (husband and wife) as joint tenants with right of survivorship. This process allowed the timeshare to bypass probate at the death of the first partner and thus the timeshare does not become part of the estate of the first partner to die. There are many similar ways to title timeshares so that the timeshare is not part of one's estate.

Even if the timeshare is not titled in such a way as to avoid probate the heirs are not forced to take it and certainly are not automatically required to pay MFs and special assessments. Most, if not all, states allow an heir to disclaim property typically within six to nine months of the death of the decedent who owned the timeshare. Disclaiming the property simply means filing an instrument (a disclaimer) with the probate court declaring that you don't want to accept the timeshare. The estate is liable for any unpaid and future MFs that accure during the estate's administration but the heirs are not and will not be if they choose to disclaim the property.

You make a good case if: 1. You never want to change sking locations. 2. You ignore maintenance cost inflation. 3. You ignore rental inflation. 4. You fail to extimate the value of the investment. i.e. at 5%/year, your $13k is worth $21k after 10 years.

My timeshare, which I bought from my daughter-in-law to get them rid of one arguement every time the son pays the maintenance fee. Since I hate the location we own, my annual economics for week 45 are $700 maintenance fees, inflating every year, $164, RCI exchange fee, $400 cost of capital @5%, $89 RCI annual membership. My total annual cost is therefore $1353 or $193 per day. Since we usually travel off season, I can rent the best location in town for less. Example, we just did Club Intrawest at Sandestin FL; a wonderful location. I saw a sign while there that offered 3 days for $150 total, or $50 per day, no strings attached! So, it's whatever floats your boat that counts...I'm stuck with this for life since I tried to give it away ($1000) on Redweek and not even a phone call. It's current market value is $0.00.

I am not a shill seller. You do not know me at all.

And you are right about the economy. It has and will hurt a lot of people for quite some time.

However, 1. It makes the timeshares that people bought...if they bought the wrong timeshares at the wrong prices... an even worse deal.

2. If the right timeshare was bought at the right price they are STILL a good value AND a good investment.

3. And, for those how NOW buy a timeshare... IF they buy the right timeshares at the right price they will have very low cost vacations for a lifetime... an amazing investment !

I was ONLY trying to give people a perspective from a person... individual... who happened upon timeshares and have used timeshares correctly. It changed my life. FIne if you don't believe it, or want to do it. But, timeshares ARE a great investment there ever was! I know this for sure, but you do have to do it right.

I know all too well that most people do not believe me, or want to listen to someone who actully knows the facts and details.... not a problem. I wish you many great vacations.

carvana wrote:

Even if the timeshare is not titled in such a way as to avoid probate the heirs are not forced to take it and certainly are not automatically required to pay MFs and special assessments. Most, if not all, states allow an heir to disclaim property typically within six to nine months of the death of the decedent who owned the timeshare. Disclaiming the property simply means filing an instrument (a disclaimer) with the probate court declaring that you don't want to accept the timeshare. The estate is liable for any unpaid and future MFs that accure during the estate's administration but the heirs are not and will not be if they choose to disclaim the property.

In addition to MFs are there other expenses that would be incurred if the estate is not closed in a timely manner?

ghhww wrote:

I am not a shill seller. You do not know me at all. ...I was ONLY trying to give people a perspective from a person... individual... who happened upon timeshares and have used timeshares correctly. It changed my life. FIne if you don't believe it, or want to do it. But, timeshares ARE a great investment there ever was! I know this for sure, but you do have to do it right.

I know all too well that most people do not believe me, or want to listen to someone who actully knows the facts and details.... not a problem. I wish you many great vacations.

Regardless of whether your book is on the best seller list or on the bargain rack at Walmart, these forums are not the place to slip in free advertising. If you want to market your book on the RedWeek site, than you should take out an ad. I'm sure they will be willing to take your advertising dolalrs. Every advertising dollar they receive, helps to keep costs and membership fees down.

If you are sincere about helping people who are in a TS crunch, instead of just saying, "TS can be a great investment and you can make money please, buy my book", maybe you should include a couple snippets that actually give advice.

mike1536 wrote:

This topic was recently discussed in TUG and the one point some brought up was that the estate cannot be closed as long as the TS is part of the estate.

In addition to MFs are there other expenses that would be incurred if the estate is not closed in a timely manner?

Exactly, this was discussed at length on Tug .... the estate is responsible for all liens and maintenance fees until the estate can sell the property. An estate includes 'heirs', I would assume.

jayjay wrote:

Exactly, this was discussed at length on Tug .... the estate is responsible for all liens and maintenance fees until the estate can sell the property. An estate includes 'heirs', I would assume.

Jayjay says "the estate is responsible for all liens and maintenance fees until the estate can sell the property. An estate includes 'heirs', I would assume."

Jayjay's assumption is wrong. An estate is a separate entity from an heir just as a corporation is a separate entity from the stockholder.

The estate is liable for the debts of the decedent at the date of death including timeshare maintenance fees. I have some experience in collecting estate debts and I know that all states have statutes that govern the probate of estates. Typically the executor or administrator files a notice in the legal section of a newspaper where the decedent died notifying creditors of their right to file a claim. There is a time period that will vary from state to state but typically is a relative short time frame during which the claimant (creditor) must file a claim. If the creditor misses that deadline he/she is out of luck for collecting that debt. Most timeshare resorts do not have probate recovery departments but if they do and do timely file their claim they must hope that it is paid. A timeshare mf is an unsecured debt and will be at the bottom of the priority list for the payment of debts. Many executors and administrators will ignore unsecured claimaints - I know from experience - and this requires the creditor to file a suit to reduce (convert) the claim to a judgment. This is time consuming and is usually not done by a timeshare resort. They will just foreclose on the property.

The heir who receives the timeshare as a bequest in the will and elects to accept the property is of course liable for future MFs.