Instead of kids paying to unload TS, can parents "will" it to Obama?

emmac27 wrote:

I know of an estate that is "closed" and the ownership of a timeshare was NOT transferred out of the decedent's name. What should the decedent's son do now?

As stated previously, the Internet is certainly NO place to receive legal advice, particularly from unknown people with no law degree nor any other actual legal experience of any kind. The following input is NOT intended to constitute legal advice.

Hypothetically speaking, one could simply send a copy of the owner's death certificate directly to the resort HOA (providing no return address of the sender, nor ANY other identifying info). Hypothetically, one could also include a brief, typewritten, unsigned note stating that the herein named decedent will obviously NOT be seeing (OR paying) any past, present or future maintenance fee bills and, if the resort wishes to initiate foreclosure proceedings, they should perhaps consider doing so without delay, in order to be able to take back ownership of the week and resell it to someone else.

Not legal advice. Just "hypothetically speaking"...

Thanks for the suggestion. I just wrote the following to send to friends and family and would appreciate any suggestions or corrections, you have.

Burst timeshare bubble?

Google “timeshare resales” and you’ll find that currently most timeshare resales are being offered for as little $1, some for $100, and a few optimistic timeshare owners are asking for more. Some timeshare owners have even had to pay hundreds to thousands of dollars to get someone to take ownership of their timeshare!

Why? Timeshares have maintenance fees and taxes that have gone up dramatically and many timeshare owners don’t feel timeshares are affordable anymore. However, the fees and taxes go on forever and the only way to stop them is to have someone else become the legal owner of the timeshare. If you stop paying for a house or car, your house or car will be repossessed. If you stop paying for a timeshare and the accompanying fees and taxes, the charges just keep piling up. Some timeshare owners, who have lost jobs and no longer pay their timeshare fees and taxes, have found that eventually their timeshare company has offered, for a few hundred dollars, to take the timeshare back in lieu of foreclosure. But this appears to happen very rarely. If timeshares were really as wonderful as timeshare companies claimed when they sold them, you’d think the timeshare companies would jump at the chance of taking back a timeshare that they could resell. By the way, if you stop paying timeshare fees, apparently the IRS will count the money you don’t pay as “income” for you, until someone else takes title for the timeshare.

Moral of this story? BUYER BEWARE!!!!

Note: I read on a timeshare blog that if you inherit a timeshare, you don’t have to accept the timeshare, but the decedent’s estate is responsible for any fees or taxes owed before the estate can be closed. Once current fees and taxes are paid and the estate is closed, I don’t know who is responsible for future fees and taxes. Could someone who is qualified on this topic please let us know!

emmac27 wrote:

Google “timeshare resales” and you’ll find that currently most timeshare resales are being offered for as little $1, some for $100, and a few optimistic timeshare owners are asking for more. Some timeshare owners have even had to pay hundreds to thousands of dollars to get someone to take ownership of their timeshare! .....Moral of this story? BUYER BEWARE!!!!

I certainly wouldn't dispute much of what is stated above, except to note that I would say "many" instead of "most" in regard to timeshares. Why? In point of fact, many timeshares have solidly and consistently held their value, even in the face of (only modestly) increased maintenance fees (e.g., Disney Vacation Club, any and all "Snowbird" weeks in coastal SW Florida, anything and everything in the Florida Keys, all summer weeks in coastal New England, and numerous other examples of "prime" timeshare weeks whose "demand" still seems to consistently exceed the available "supply"). For "many" other weeks (e.g., in Orlando, Branson, Las Vegas, anything anywhere associated with Westgate or Celebrity / Legacy) the maintenance fee costs (but not necessarily the property taxes) just keep going up while the resale market values just keep going down. In short, It's really a case-by-case situation where very few statements universally apply "right across the board".

That said, your concluding line above is irrefutably true and wise --- Caveat Emptor (Buyer Beware)!

Thanks for the comments Ken!

I guess I should have clarified that most of the resales that APPEARED when I GOOGLED RESALES are being offered for $1 or $100, but I'm glad to hear there are timeshares that are selling for more money.

Is there a site that lists which timeshares and tanked and which are holding their value or even increasing in value? If you know of such a site, I'd appreciate the URL. Your note listed some of the winners and losers, but if there is a site with more info, I'd be interested in looking at it.

Thanks!

emmac27 wrote:

Thanks for the comments Ken!

Is there a site that lists which timeshares and tanked and which are holding their value or even increasing in value? If you know of such a site, I'd appreciate the URL. Your note listed some of the winners and losers, but if there is a site with more info, I'd be interested in looking at it.

My observations are not derived from any web site, but from my own (almost 30 years now) of ongoing timeshare ownership, timeshare industry observations and personal experiences. If there WAS any such web site or other single source of comprehensive information, I'd surely want to see it too!

It looks like you can not only refuse to inherit a timeshare, you can "abandon" the timeshare if maintenance fees are greater than the value of the timeshare. See the advice below:

In the case of an estate, any existing liability must be paid. Maintenance fees due as of the death date must be paid as a liability.A person does not have to accept any inheritance if they do not want it. An estate can abandon a property such as a timeshare under most states' probate procedures. Abandonment is designed for assets with future liabilities greater than the value of the asset, such as annual maintenance fees. Ask a good probate lawyer about disclaimers and abandonment.In effect, all states have a procedure by which the heirs file a disclaimer and the executor files a notice of abandonment in probate court and the estate can be settled. The exact procedures vary from state to state, but they do exist. Probate law is very much about protecting families and other heirs, not throw good money after bad. Everyone needs to find a competent lawyer to avoid the pitfall of paying that which is not a just debt.Future maintenance fees are just future liabilities - the estate is only responsible for liabilities that existed at the time of death. If none of the heirs is willing to accept a portion of the inheritance, the executor can try to sell it or give it away -- after a reasonable effort to sell it or give it away with no takers, the estate can then abandon it.

The following suggests that not only can we refuse to inherit an unwanted timeshare, but we can also arrange to have the timeshare removed from the estate if the fees are more than the value of the timeshare. HOORAY!

In the case of an estate, any existing liability must be paid. Maintenance fees due as of the death date must be paid as a liability.A person does not have to accept any inheritance if they do not want it. An estate can abandon a property such as a timeshare under most states' probate procedures. Abandonment is designed for assets with future liabilities greater than the value of the asset, such as annual maintenance fees. Ask a good probate lawyer about disclaimers and abandonment.In effect, all states have a procedure by which the heirs file a disclaimer and the executor files a notice of abandonment in probate court and the estate can be settled. The exact procedures vary from state to state, but they do exist. Probate law is very much about protecting families and other heirs, not throw good money after bad. Everyone needs to find a competent lawyer to avoid the pitfall of paying that which is not a just debt.Future maintenance fees are just future liabilities - the estate is only responsible for liabilities that existed at the time of death. If none of the heirs is willing to accept a portion of the inheritance, the executor can try to sell it or give it away -- after a reasonable effort to sell it or give it away with no takers, the estate can then abandon it.

emmac27 wrote:

the executor can try to sell it or give it away -- after a reasonable effort to sell it or give it away with no takers, the estate can then abandon it.

Which begs the question, who then becomes the willing legal owner? Somebody has to own it.

emmac27 wrote:

The following suggests that not only can we refuse to inherit an unwanted timeshare, but we can also arrange to have the timeshare removed from the estate if the fees are more than the value of the timeshare. HOORAY!

The value is only what a buyer is willing to pay. In the old days (before this recession) values could be placed on many timeshare weeks but now it's a major dilemma to find a given value .... however if you go to Ebay Timeshare Auctions and see that the same resort and week your decedent owned is auctioning for $1 then you have your value. Ebay is the #1 place to see what a timeshare week is really worth in the market today.

Your information is good to know and you have certainly done your homework, but be sure to check with the state the decedent's timeshare was located as to estate laws regarding timeshares.

emmac27 wrote:

All states have a procedure by which the heirs file a disclaimer and the executor files a notice of abandonment in probate court and the estate can be settled. The exact procedures vary from state to state, but they do exist.

My previous post was going by your statement above.

You asked, "who then becomes the willing legal owner? Somebody has to own it."

After the timeshare resort doesn't receive any fees for some period of time, I assume the timeshare resort will use foreclosure to regain the title to the timeshare and then sell it to someone else.

I was glad to learn that an estate can "abandon" a timeshare that is worth only $1 on the market and has a total of around $1000 in fees and taxes each year.

emmac27 wrote:

...the timeshare resort will use foreclosure to regain the title to the timeshare ...

So wouldn't it just make sense for the executor (or whoever has the authority to sell it) to just write to the resort and explain that the owner is deceased, none of his heirs want it, and then ask the resort if it will accept a deed back in lieu of foreclosure?

Yes, it would make sense to ask if the resort would accept a deed back in lieu of foreclosure. But if the resort won't, then the resort will be forced eventually to take the timeshare by foreclosure. In either case, the resort gets the timeshare back and can sell it to someone who wants it and will pay fees and taxes. Of course they may have trouble finding someone who isn't aware they can get the same timeshare for $1 on ebay.

I am new to the realization that my choice to put my 2 deeds to a timeshare on Kauai in my revocable trust would cause my heirs all this trouble.The first thing I want to do is get the deeds out of my trust.I am not sure how to do it ,but I will get some legal advice.I expect that I will use the resort for a couple of years anyway ,as I am stuck with the water intrusion assessment for 2 years.I bought from a very nice company,not the present one.

The timeshare companies made untrue statements and false promises during the sales presentations concerning how the end of life cycle for a timeshare works when we are no longer able to use it.

The sales people stated that when we are no longer able to use our timeshares we could sell the timeshares back to them. I asked how much the timeshares would depreciate over time, anticipating that I probably would not recover the full amount of the purchase price. The timeshare sales people stated that timeshares do not depreciate over time, and that they actually appreciate in value over time. So then I asked if that meant that I could sell it back to them for the appreciated value of my initial purchase price and the sales people said probably not, but that I could always get back the amount that I paid.

This was many years ago, and over the years my wife and I have purchased several timeshares, and I always asked the same question to the sales people about the end of life cycle for the timeshare, and I always got the same answer that I could always sell it back to them.

It is now many years later and my wife and I are close to retirement, our kids are grown up, and we are not able to use the timeshares like we used to. So I have inquired about selling the timeshares back to the timeshare companies who sold them to us originally. What I have been told by the timeshare companies is that they do not buy the timeshares back, and it is up to me to find a buyer. The timeshare companies are not interested in getting involved in this end of life cycle process even though the sales people always said they would. This is extremely fraudulent in my opinion.

The timeshare companies are only interested in maintaining their revenue stream from the constantly increasing maintenance fees. This is made evident by the fact that the maintenance fees include a line item for bad debt expense from other timeshare owners who have defaulted on their maintenance fees, but the timeshare companies are ensuring they still get that revenue by passing the bad debt expense to the other timeshare owners who are still able to pay the maintenance fees.

At the timeshare sales presentations they described the maintenance fees as being directed toward the maintenance and upkeep of the buildings and furnishings in the buildings, but they never mentioned that the maintenance fees were intended to maintain their revenue stream in the event of defaulting timeshare owners by passing the bad dept on to the other timeshare owners. This is also extremely fraudulent in my opinion.

I would never have purchased our first timeshare if the sales people had been honest about the end of life cycle process on timeshares for timeshare owners. Instead, my wife and I now have several timeshares that we want to sell back to the timeshare companies, and these companies refuse to honor what the sales people said to us. And to make matters worse, the timeshare companies won't even take back timeshares for free, because they enjoy the easy-money of maintenance fees going on into perpetuity.

I've already done this, but I think everyone who is unhappy about the fraudulent things told to them by timeshare salespeople should file a complaint with the Federal Trade Commission (FTC). Maybe if enough people complain, then some laws will be enacted to stop the fraudulent sales pitches. I would like to see the FTC step in and fix the timeshare industry to be the way the salespeople advertise it to be. That is, you can sell it back, or at least give it back with out having to pay any legal fees, or other fees.

The way the timeshare industry is right now is more like a fitness club or country club with a huge non-refundable "initiation fee", and an "annual dues" that goes on into perpetuity. The "initiation fee" is way over-priced given the reality of the resale market, and it is definitely non-refundable, and industry gets to raise the amount of the "annual dues" at will so as to maintain the revenue stream to which they have become accustomed.

greg608 wrote:

The timeshare companies made untrue statements and false promises during the sales presentations concerning how the end of life cycle for a timeshare works when we are no longer able to use it.

The sales people stated that when we are no longer able to use our timeshares we could sell the timeshares back to them. I asked how much the timeshares would depreciate over time, anticipating that I probably would not recover the full amount of the purchase price. The timeshare sales people stated that timeshares do not depreciate over time, and that they actually appreciate in value over time. So then I asked if that meant that I could sell it back to them for the appreciated value of my initial purchase price and the sales people said probably not, but that I could always get back the amount that I paid.

This was many years ago, and over the years my wife and I have purchased several timeshares, and I always asked the same question to the sales people about the end of life cycle for the timeshare, and I always got the same answer that I could always sell it back to them.

It is now many years later and my wife and I are close to retirement, our kids are grown up, and we are not able to use the timeshares like we used to. So I have inquired about selling the timeshares back to the timeshare companies who sold them to us originally. What I have been told by the timeshare companies is that they do not buy the timeshares back, and it is up to me to find a buyer. The timeshare companies are not interested in getting involved in this end of life cycle process even though the sales people always said they would. This is extremely fraudulent in my opinion.

The timeshare companies are only interested in maintaining their revenue stream from the constantly increasing maintenance fees. This is made evident by the fact that the maintenance fees include a line item for bad debt expense from other timeshare owners who have defaulted on their maintenance fees, but the timeshare companies are ensuring they still get that revenue by passing the bad debt expense to the other timeshare owners who are still able to pay the maintenance fees.

At the timeshare sales presentations they described the maintenance fees as being directed toward the maintenance and upkeep of the buildings and furnishings in the buildings, but they never mentioned that the maintenance fees were intended to maintain their revenue stream in the event of defaulting timeshare owners by passing the bad dept on to the other timeshare owners. This is also extremely fraudulent in my opinion.

I would never have purchased our first timeshare if the sales people had been honest about the end of life cycle process on timeshares for timeshare owners. Instead, my wife and I now have several timeshares that we want to sell back to the timeshare companies, and these companies refuse to honor what the sales people said to us. And to make matters worse, the timeshare companies won't even take back timeshares for free, because they enjoy the easy-money of maintenance fees going on into perpetuity.

I've already done this, but I think everyone who is unhappy about the fraudulent things told to them by timeshare salespeople should file a complaint with the Federal Trade Commission (FTC). Maybe if enough people complain, then some laws will be enacted to stop the fraudulent sales pitches. I would like to see the FTC step in and fix the timeshare industry to be the way the salespeople advertise it to be. That is, you can sell it back, or at least give it back with out having to pay any legal fees, or other fees.

The way the timeshare industry is right now is more like a fitness club or country club with a huge non-refundable "initiation fee", and an "annual dues" that goes on into perpetuity. The "initiation fee" is way over-priced given the reality of the resale market, and it is definitely non-refundable, and industry gets to raise the amount of the "annual dues" at will so as to maintain the revenue stream to which they have become accustomed.

Unfortunately, it's only what's written in the contract that's legally binding .... there's an old saying among seasoned timeshare owners that, "if a timeshare sales person moves their lips then they're lying" somewhat like the previous adage of used car salesmen before public histories were established on all used cars.

Does this also apply to Canada inheritence laws. We have a timeshare in Parksville BC that is deed and title and will be inherited by our sons. It is great to hear they have a choice but is that in Canada too. We also have a timeshare in Mexico Los Cabo , which we understood that if we added our sons that they would have asscess to use the resort also as they are adults. Recently checked on that since I was told now by doing that they will be responsible to take over the responsiblity if we pass. So do not add your adults kids on the contract, as we did not think about it at the time and thought it would be convienent for them, not knowing that timeshares were so hard to sell etc. Would never of even bought these if we knew. Like others you get told the moon and so forth. We, are baby boomers and will use them for awhile yet. It is not cheap to take them off the contract, so hopefully when they do need to deal with it they will use them too. Or put them on ebay like others have had too.

The only benefit you gain by being in Canada and having a TS in the US is that in the event of a default (by whomever) any chasing of the debt needs to be done by a Canadian based collections agency if they want to obtain a legally binding judgement against you in Canada. If the TS is in Canada then the same applies to a US owner, it needs to be a US based agency. However, for a home based TS then you're on the hook. Unless a country of residence agency is involved your credit report won't be affected. Getting another country's agencies involved is a costly excercise for the TS owners and is unlikely to be pursued unless the debt is huge since it won't be worth their while. Not impossible, but unlikely.

You mention a home base TS. Does that mean that the time share is in your country of residence. Have you had personal experience with this.

Yes I've had personal experience of this. I owned a TS in the US (I'm Canadian) and when I finally decided that enough was enough with the maintenance fee increases I was able to "leverage" a deedback by just threatening to cease all payments and let them "do their worst". Since the credit rules in Canada are different and separate from the US it's very difficult for them to chase anyone out of their home country. I got the deedback very quickly and I've checked the court records and I no longer own it.