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Manhattan Club Lawsuit
I received a letter from Starr Associates, attorneys saying they will start legal action against me if fees ($13,025)are not paid in full within 30 days plus I'll be responsible for all legal fees OR second option is deeding my TS to the Timeshare Association.
Should I respond or not? And should I deed it back?
Anne
jamesg658 wrote:Has anyone received a buyout letter from Stroudsburg? Can unload this unusable property and they'll send you $100.00. Any thoughts? jamesg658
Anne Y.
We received a similar letter stating the same just differents amounts of money requested. I understand many letters are going out similar from this attorney's office to those owners who are fed up with paying fees and not being able to book time. Recently I was at the MC and booked my time through another source. The 26th floor was packed with new potential buyers who likely were repurchasing the units they are pushing to buy back from us at $100. Several other discruntle owners were there complaining about not being able to get time in units. One owner even offered to sell his unit back to someone looking to buy from MC and security escorted him out of the building. I have Called this attorney several times with no response. Not sure what to do either at this point. Hopefully the law suite will prevail. P
Sharon V.
Yes, I received a similar letter. I wonder if they will initiate lawsuits against all these people. If you accept the offer, will you no longer be a party to the class action?
jamesg658 wrote:Has anyone received a buyout letter from Stroudsburg? Can unload this unusable property and they'll send you $100.00. Any thoughts? jamesg658
Marylou K.
This explains why the original owners are being frozen out of getting reservations. The newer owners are able to profit by the available rooms due to former owners not being able to use theirs. It is so wrong, yet what can one do? Will the class action suit bring results. If we accept this new offer for them to take it back for $100, I'm sure we'll be signing something that prohibits us from seeking other relief, like accepting anything that might come of the class action. Catch 22, all while they are still selling units!
irenes93 wrote:From: David Smerling <dsmerling@aol.com> Sent: Mon, Jun 23, 2014 1:11 pm Subject: TMCMy wife and I attended the Club's presentation held in Wakefield over this past weekend.
I learned several things, to the extent they knew what they were talking about, as follows:
1. There are 3 "classifications" of rooms -- owner's rooms, "hotel use" rooms, and Developer's rooms. We, the owners can only reserve from the pool of owner's rooms. I pressed, but they didn't divulge or know what relative amounts or percentages were contained in these groupings.
2. For several years now, all new owners were buying into this new "point" system. This created two tiers of owners.
3. And here is the problem from a "booking" perspective -- even beyond the developer's hold back of rooms. Points owners who have The Manhattan Club as their home base can reserve rooms 11 month's in advance. Then, any points owners worldwide -- not Manhattan club based -- can reserve rooms 10 months in advance. I was told the 11 month window means 100% of owners rooms are available and that the 10 month window gives you a 60% chance. So, by the time we regular owners can book at 9 months in advance, there is little if any rooms left to begin with.
4. Parenthetically, there are a lot of complexities involved with owning "points"-- and they are theoretically good, depending on the relative percentages of kinds of ownerships and whether the concepts they describe actually work in reality. But that's a discussion for another day.
David Smerling
Marylou K.
These were the problems with the suit according to a lawyer and a real estate person on the listserv:
From the lawyer
"In the Blau case, the actual decision was based on a very limited specific factor -- that the main "factual allegation" upon which the lower court based its decision to uphold the case was stated only in a memorandum (a brief) -- and NOT in the complaint or an affidavit. When a fact is stated in a memo -- it has no effect. A fact must be stated in the complaint or a sworn affidavit for it to have legal existence.
Blau filed a complaint. in it were factual allegations outlining what he believed to be the issues against the Manhattan club. The Manhattan club attorneys filed a motion to dismiss that complaint and they would file legal papers including affidavits which are sworn factual allegations. And they will also file legal memorandum which are pure argument and may restate facts for the benefit of Judges but are not sources of sworn factual information. In other words, facts stated in the memo, which are not supported by the affidavits or the complaint, are not counted. this is what happened here. When Blau responded to the motion to dismiss, in his memo he stated facts some of which were not supported by the complaint or additional sworn affidavits. One of those facts was the main reason the lower court denied the motion to dismiss. The appellate court, seeing that, said we cannot base our decision on facts which are only produced within the memo.
With that being said, the court also chose too discuss the lack of detail and specificity of the plaintiffs claims in general. But, that's not what the case turned upon.
The Manhattan Club (and Eichner) have very good lawyers.
Every time there is one of these, we should learn the lesson and not make that same mistake next time."
From the Real Estate person "Although court holds that the case was not pled correctly, they also noted that the prospectus discloses that a portion of the units will be rented...so not fraud to rent 96% is the inference. Regards,
Irene S.
Hi, I had a similar experience at one of my timeshares. Turned out RCI, Diamond, and VI all owned several units in the resort. I believe it amounted to about 1/3 too. Whats more, when the date came to book something 2 years out they put a crew on the phone and the computer to book the prime time---so they could turn around and rent it! They have apparently picked up many of these at foreclosure auctions and tax sales.
Very Frustrating! Apparently they are also getting their candidates elected to the boards so they can be sure rules favorable to them are passed.
irenes93 wrote:To: manhattanclubowners@yahoogroups.com From: manhattanclubowners@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 17:21:12 -0400 Subject: Re: [manhattanclubowners] FW: Limited Time Offer: Premium Stays in NYC Starting at $199USD per nightWOW 30% No wonder we can’t book.
From: mailto:manhattanclubowners@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 4:53 PM To: manhattanclubowners@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [manhattanclubowners] FW: Limited Time Offer: Premium Stays in NYC Starting at $199USD per night
I was frustrated to learn at a presentation last week that the Manhattan Club has a special partnership with RCI, and as a part of that partnership they guarantee RCI 30% of the inventory. Therein lies the reason for the difficulty in getting reservations. That is a third of the inventory.
Rich C.
My husband and I received the following invitation last week:
"Dear Manhattan Club Owner, You are cordially invited to attend our second New Jersey owner meeting at the Holiday Inn in South Plainfield, NJ designed to communicate important information about your current ownership, changes in the industry as a whole and how you may be affected. We will start with new ways to help you get reservations into the Manhattan Club along with the choices available regarding exchange companies, including RCI Points. In about an hour’s time, we will get you up to date, walk you through the new online resources and reservation options and assist with any aspect of your Manhattan Club membership that is not meeting your expectations."
When I called to RSVP, I was told we received the email in error, because we are already points owners and the meeting is to convert weeks owners into points. I asked if we could still come to complain and inform the potential "convertees" that while being a points owner does allow you to reserve Manhattan Club at 11 months, you must use RCI to do so. This means paying RCI dues (currently $125 per year) just to use your points to book your "home" resort. The only thing I dislike more than my Manhattan Club ownership is my RCI membership. Needless to say, she told me not to come to the meeting and to bring my concerns to an owners meeting at the Manhattan Club.
Lena P.
News from Attorney General Eric T. Schneiderman FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE July 25, 2014 New York City Press Office / 212-416-8060 Albany Press Office / 518-473-5525 nyag.pressoffice@ag.ny.gov Twitter: @AGSchneiderman A.G. SCHNEIDERMAN ANNOUNCES COURT ORDER BARRING SALES IN MANHATTAN CLUB TIMESHARE HOTEL Order Temporarily Bars Developers From Selling Interests In The Timeshare Pending Fraud Investigation; Freezes Assets And Bars Targets From Foreclosing On Defrauded Purchasers Schneiderman: Purchasers Duped Into Paying Tens Of Thousands Of Dollars To Become Owners; Later Denied Benefits Of Ownership In Alleged Bait-And-Switch Scam NEW YORK – Attorney General Eric T. Schneiderman today announced that he obtained a court order halting sales of timeshare interests at the Manhattan Club, a luxury hotel in Midtown Manhattan. The order by a Manhattan Supreme Court Justice requires that the club’s principals, Ian Bruce Eichner, Leslie H. Eichner, and Stuart P. Eichner, testify in court about the club’s practices and produce documents to the Attorney General’s Real Estate Finance Bureau about allegedly fraudulent sales tactics. The order also bars the corporations through which the club and the developers act from draining bank accounts connected to the hotel during the investigation. The Manhattan Club is further barred from foreclosing on timeshare purchasers, who the Attorney General alleges were lured into investing with false promises. The Attorney General’s investigation was spurred by complaints from people who paid tens of thousands of dollars to become Manhattan Club “owners” but have been unable to make reservations due to a claimed lack of available rooms by the hotel’s operators. At the same time, rooms in the Manhattan Club are being rented over the internet to the general public. About 14,000 people currently own timeshares in the hotel’s 286 suites. “When sellers use high-pressure tactics to sell timeshares, consumers should be wary that they may not be getting what they were promised. We allege that the Manhattan Club, near New York City’s iconic Carnegie Hall, is a particularly stark example of such a bait-and-switch timeshare scheme,” Attorney General Schneiderman said. “We will use all the tools at our disposal to protect customers from unscrupulous scammers and predatory businesses and hold New York developers to the promises they make, whether orally, in their sales pitches or in their formal offering plans.” The Manhattan Club’s website bills the 200 West 56th Street accommodation as a “unique” “residence-style boutique hotel” that blends “a vacation ownership retreat with a luxury suite hotel” and that offers “a hard-to-find haven in the midst of this active city.” The website appeals to people who “frequently visit New York City to enjoy Broadway theatre, fine dining and shopping, [and] classical performances.” In April and May, the Attorney General sent undercover investigators to record the Manhattan Club’s “Vacation Ownership Experience” sales presentation, held at the club. As alleged in court papers filed by the Attorney General’s office, investigators found evidence indicating that the Manhattan Club’s sales tactics amounted to a bait-and-switch scheme. Prospective purchasers were baited by a relentless sales pitch that includes a number of misleading promises, including that ownership in the Manhattan Club is “better than money in the bank.” Prospective buyers were also allegedly told that the club does not rent rooms to the general public, that reservations are easy to make, and that few restrictions apply to reservations by owners. The papers alleged that the switch comes after a purchase agreement is signed, when a new owner learns from an offering plan -- which was illegally withheld prior to the purchase -- about the difference between what they were promised in the sales presentation and what they actually bought. For example, contrary to the club’s explicit promises, room availability to owners is limited by the renting of rooms to the general public. That means that all reservations are subject to availability and owners, in some cases, have not been able to use any of the time they purchased. Further, the owners’ annual common charges have jumped approximately 200% in the last ten years-- to about $2,000 per ownership interest per year. Some frustrated owners have sold their ownership interests back for a mere $1, just to escape the burdens of paying these charges. Issued pursuant to General Business Law section 354, a provision of New York’s Martin Act that confers broad powers on the Attorney General to investigate and halt fraud, the court order bars the Manhattan Club from selling timeshare interests, prevents them from withdrawing money from certain bank accounts, and stops them from foreclosing on Manhattan Club purchasers during the pendency of the investigation. The order also compels the Manhattan Club’s principals, Ian Bruce Eichner, Leslie H. Eichner, Stuart P. Eichner to testify about the club’s practices. Other respondents named in the order, agents and corporations involved in the club’s operations, are Scott L. Lager, T. Park Central LLC, O. Park Central LLC, Manhattan Club Marketing Group LLC, and New York Urban Ownership Management LLC. A copy of the court order can be viewed here. For information about timeshare, home improvement and vacation scams and how to protect yourself, click here for the Attorney General’s brochure “Don’t Get Burned: Attorney General’s Guide To Protecting New Yorkers From Summer Scams.” Deputy Chief Investigator John McManus from the Attorney General’s office is the lead investigator assigned to this case. The Investigations Bureau is led by Chief Investigator Dominick Zarella. Sylvia Rivera, Karon Richardson, Louis Carter, Richard Friedman and John Serrapica, all of the Investigations Bureau, also assisted in the investigation. This case is being handled by Assistant Attorney General Serwat Farooq, Deputy Chief Andrew H. Meier, and Bureau Chief Erica F. Buckley, all of the Real Estate Finance Bureau, as well as Executive Deputy Attorney General for Economic Justice Karla G. Sanchez. Law Interns Jessica Eng and Robert Volynsky also assisted in the investigation. ###
Irene S.
If you read the Attorney General's press release it only covers sales. It does not cover the TMC RCI upgrade of bait and switch and some of the other skullduggery we know of. Eichner has the very best lawyers in the business. This could mean Eichner losses millions and millions of dollars. TMC will fight to the death. TMC will obfuscate and try to limit the investigation as much as possible. Let's make sure we as owners are there to show the AG's office where to look so we can the maximum benefit for owners. Now is the time to keep the pressure on! Irene Smalls
Irene S.
The New York Attorney General's court order halted all foreclosures. We should not pay maintenance fees. The Manhattan Club cannot complete any foreclosures until the Attorney General's investigation is complete. I am not going to pay another penny to The Manhattan Club scam. If they dare try to mess up our credit we can cite the AG's action and the newspaper articles as reasons why we are not paying. Every credit bureau gives you the right to dispute and state your side of things.
Irene Smalls
Irene S.
This is an election year. The Attorney General does not want to look bad. Keep the pressure up. Write and tell your stories to the AG. Actions by the Attorney General of New York State will help all owners not just the TMC owners in New York State. Here is his address:
Eric Schneiderman New York Attorney General’s Office The Capitol Albany, New York 12224-0341
Irene S.
This information is from a former TMC Salesperson
Just to let you know...the points conversion program is a COMPLETE ripoff...TMC pays about $250.00 to convert owners to points...and they charge owners, last I heard, about $7,000 to convert...basically all profit for them...and you STILL have to pay the TMC maintenance fees...
Irene S.
The Manhattan Club Business Model
TMC business model... Keep selling units over and over again... sell an ownership program for $30,000...the owner becomes unhappy because they can't get reservations...TMC get its back from frustrated owners for a $100 Visa card and sells the same unit over again...
Irene S.
