Manhattan Club Lawsuit

I proposed starting a new thread because there was never a class action and unless you are shooting for a world record, 250 pages is unwieldy to say the least. You seem to consider it some kind of freedom of speech issue. Speaking of which, everyone is entitled to their opinion, but some people combine that with their personal need to express every thought on their mind. That’s why eight years in, we’re hitting 250 pages and only now is a competent attorney involved who has a serious strategy compared to the dilettantes who have preyed on this group in the past.

Chris, I don’t expect that you and I will ever agree on much, if anything. I remember you taking the thread through your “maybe I will, maybe I won’t” thought process about hiring JMZ. I don't remember why you decided not to retain him although I can imagine several scenarios where he might not want to represent you. Instead you founded the "coalition" as an alternative, with a “potential” lawsuit. Just who do you expect to represent you? Perhaps you think you will negotiate a better deal with JMZ as a group? If he succeeds in obtaining access to the membership list, the coalition is superfluous. If he fails, a coalition of unhappy owners who wouldn't pay the retainer adds little of value to the effort, if anything at all. Have you thought this through?

I just can’t understand why you won’t even post to the topic instead of replying to each post directly which duplicates the original post unnecessarily.

hmm, three posts in one day. consider not taking up so much redweek.com space with wasted criticism, and add some really constructive and helpful suggestions in a proactive manner. people have been known to change "jobs." that could prove refreshing.

in cooperative unity,

chris

Just ignore and don't answer him. I don't even read his postings anymore.

Chris,

You do not take constructive criticism. It has been tried, and not only by me.

I re-read my original posts. I did not attack you, and went out of my way to be clear that this is not about you. But you seem to want to make it about you. And your fellow poster Sunildas wants to make it about me. This is about a legal dispute between the timeshare owners and the MC developer and the best way to use this site to help settle it. You keep saying you want justice, but in a civil court, all you can hope to get is a financial settlement or perhaps an order to restructure the MC, if you prevail. That settlement is not likely to satisfy you as "just", but it will be whatever the court decides, if we get even that far. That is the level where I would like to keep this discussion.

If you don't agree with those basic concepts, then I don't believe you are being realistic. Doesn't make you a bad person, just not part of the solution.

I'm sure you will insist on having the last word, but that's it for me, for now.

Hey you guys...'tis the season.......bickering like this doesn't help anyone, esp. yourselves... this is how wars get started..... what about practicing kindness and compassion. Why waste your life force on this? Each day you are given a new day, and you don't know if it will be your last...why not try to enjoy it? Think of all those in the world who would love to have this problem. People who are oppressed, in prison, in war zones, people with terminal illness to name a few. May you all be blessed.

Thank you for your holiday wishes, Deborah. May you enjoy a happy holiday season as well.

Thank you for your kind message Nathan....you know, I do hope we ultimately get a resolution to this situation that makes us all happy, but I have to admit, if and when it ends, this posting site, I will truly miss a lot of you.

your clarification is constructive.

nathanz2 wrote:

Chris,

You do not take constructive criticism. It has been tried, and not only by me.

I re-read my original posts. I did not attack you, and went out of my way to be clear that this is not about you. But you seem to want to make it about you. And your fellow poster Sunildas wants to make it about me. This is about a legal dispute between the timeshare owners and the MC developer and the best way to use this site to help settle it. You keep saying you want justice, but in a civil court, all you can hope to get is a financial settlement or perhaps an order to restructure the MC, if you prevail. That settlement is not likely to satisfy you as "just", but it will be whatever the court decides, if we get even that far. That is the level where I would like to keep this discussion.

If you don't agree with those basic concepts, then I don't believe you are being realistic. Doesn't make you a bad person, just not part of the solution.

I'm sure you will insist on having the last word, but that's it for me, for now.

Happy Holidays to all! To move our discussion away from the road of dispute, I got a question to Nathan Z. and all our community. Several owners shared that they received a Deedback offer from Lynn Donnel (hope the name is correct). Pursuant to the AG Assurance of Discontinuation the TMC employees shall not engage in any act directly or indirectly relating to the offer, purchase, sale, exchange or transfer, etc. of any timeshare interest. To my recollection, Lynn used to be a person who signed the contracts at the sales pitch and was then involved into the reservation process. Seems she is not working for the TMC any more, possibly she currently represents the Bluegreen or any other firm. So, is such engagement violating the AG settlement? what is the legal status of a such deedback?

hi fibon. good holiday times to you as well, and hopefully a more productive and successful new year regarding ALL TMC ISSUES.

i know of lynne o'donnell. I'm not sure of her current employment situation, but i know she had worked for TMC, i believe in the financial dept.

a quote from you....." Seems she is not working for the TMC any more, possibly she currently represents the Bluegreen." just for clarification, i thought TMC and bluegreen were one and the same entity since the SETTLEMENT. please advise.

fibon wrote:

Happy Holidays to all! To move our discussion away from the road of dispute, I got a question to Nathan Z. and all our community. Several owners shared that they received a Deedback offer from Lynn Donnel (hope the name is correct). Pursuant to the AG Assurance of Discontinuation the TMC employees shall not engage in any act directly or indirectly relating to the offer, purchase, sale, exchange or transfer, etc. of any timeshare interest. To my recollection, Lynn used to be a person who signed the contracts at the sales pitch and was then involved into the reservation process. Seems she is not working for the TMC any more, possibly she currently represents the Bluegreen or any other firm. So, is such engagement violating the AG settlement? what is the legal status of a such deedback?

Hi Fibon, I’m taking a break- good luck and happy holidays!

Chris V - The Settlement agreement with the NYAG requires the current management organization (lead by the Eichner's) to sell their interest in TMC to a new manager within 3 years of the date the agreement was signed. Additional terms of the agreement preclude some members of the current team to engage in the timeshare business within the state of New York. Bluegreen appears to be the entity that will assume the new management roll and replace the named individuals in the settlement agreement. The exact terms of the arrangement between the Eichner's and Bluegreen has not been made public and my personal guess is it never will be. We, as owners, are left with a situation were we must trust the NYAG is enforcing its' own settlement documents.

But according to the way I read the settlement document Bluegreen should not be 'one in the same' as the Eichner's. Management of TMC is neither Eichner or Bluegreen. TMC is a building, services to manage that building an a business to operate it. Who literally owns the bricks and mortar I'm still not clear on. I believe we own the 'air-space' for a specific slice of time. I do not believe our Grant Deed has any claim to the bricks and mortar. It clearly has no claim to the business operations. Even our representation on the BOD for that roll is neutered. So your statement that TMC and Bluegreen are the same is not true. TMC is one of the properties that Bluegreen has an interest in. The 3 years since the settlement has not yet expired.

Robert,

Maybe this is my confirmation bias showing, but I agree with your analysis.

I would add that the management contract is controlled by the Board, and Eichner controlled the Board; therefore, the management contract.

I suspect things will be the same under Bluegreen unless/until it is changed by a court under the terms of a lawsuit settlement brought by the owners.

That is one of the reasons I joined the JMZ lawsuit effort.

Craig Rodby

I would add agree with craig32 that the MC is currently controlled by Urban/Eichner and the mixed Board.

Concerning the management contract Par.62 in the Assurance says that only after 3 years Urban will transfer to Bluegreen the Management Agreement ("TMC transfer). For the purpose of transfer O and T Parks have to enter into an agreement with the THIRD party to transfer interests from the MC existing owners to the TMC Purchaser (Bluegreen) ALL their timeshare interests.

Under the transfer the TMC employees shall not engage in any act directly or indirectly relating to the offer, purchase, sale, exchange or transfer, etc. of any timeshare interest (Par.61).

And, to the best part, Section Miscellaneous, par. 71 - 86, clearly state that any evidence of a violation of the Assurance shall constitute "prima facie" proof of violation and if any of the Defendants have breached the settlement they will be prosecuted by OAG.

Hello Fibo, I’m no lawyer, but I think we have to look at what the AOD says, not what we would like it to say. The AOD gives current management up to three years to sell; it does not require a three year sunset. So a transfer can happen any time it suits buyer and seller up to three years. Similarly, a breach gives the AG the opportunity to reopen the matter but not the obligation. Given how much time and money the AG has already spent on this, I wouldn’t expect a lot of enthusiasm about investing more. If there should be a breach, I’m betting the AG would rather “cure” it (i.e,. remedy the breach) than reopen the matter. And none of the admissions of improper behavior are admissible in court unless the AOD gets tossed. I don't know if anyone has the ability to void the AOD other than the AG. My point is that this just isn’t the slam-dunk some folks present. Any lawyer who can do this is worth his keep; The management certainly got their money's worth.

Hello Nathanz2, I am not a lawyer either. My impression is that people forgot or never read the AG's Assurance of Discontinuation and Press-release. Seems the Assurance has been mentioned here but the Press-release, which has been written in a simple wording, was not acknowledged. I'd like to post it here again, maybe that will provide more understanding.

BTW in regards to your own interest: has it been transferred to the Bluegreen? If yes, have you received any docs on the transfer from the TMC/Bluegreen?

A.G. Schneiderman Announces $6.5 Million Settlement With Midtown Manhattan Timeshare That Scammed Purchasers

The Manhattan Club, Timeshare In Midtown Manhattan, Will Pay Restitution To Hundreds Of Purchasers That Were Misled About Their Ability To Reserve Rooms And Resell Shares

Settlement Is The Largest In Recent History Of The AG’s Real Estate Finance Bureau

Schneiderman Reminds New York Residents To Be Wary Of High-Pressure Sales Traps Utilized By Some Timeshare Companies

NEW YORK – Attorney General Eric T. Schneiderman today announced a $6.5 million settlemnt with the owners and operators of the Manhattan Club, a timeshare building in Midtown Manhattan, over the sponsor’s repeated false promises to potential and current share owners. The settlement is the largest in recent history for the Attorney General’s Real Estate Finance Bureau. Under the terms of the settlement, the operators of the Manhattan Club, at 200 West 56th Street, acknowledge that they repeatedly misled shareowners about the club’s reservation process, their ability to sell back their shares, and the details of the club’s state-approved offering plan.

“The owners of the Manhattan Club lured thousands of timeshare buyers with false promises and shady sales tactics that violated New York law,” said Attorney General Schneiderman. “While timeshares can be legitimate enterprises, scams like this one are common. To avoid becoming a victim, always be wary of high pressure sales tactics.”

The club bills itself as a “unique” “residence-style boutique hotel” that blends “a vacation ownership retreat with a luxury suite hotel” and that offers “a hard-to-find haven in the midst of this active city.” The website appeals to people who “frequently visit New York City to enjoy Broadway theatre, fine dining and shopping, [and] classical performances.” The owners and operators in this case are T. Park Central LLC, O. Park Central LLC, Park Central Management, LLC, Ian Bruce Eichner, Leslie H. Eichner, Stuart P. Eichner, Scott L. Lager, Hospitality Advisors, LLC, New York Urban Ownership Management, LLC, and Manhattan Club Marketing Group LLC.

In addition to the $6.5 million restitution to eligible timeshare owners, the settlement requires:

The owners and operators to be barred from the timeshare industry The owners and operators will sell their stakes to a third-party purchaser and relinquish management control Remove all sponsor-appointed current officers and directors from their positions as members of the Board of the Timeshare Association. Eligible timeshare owners will be contacted by a Claims Administrator at a later date about disbursement of the restitution.

The Office of the Attorney General (OAG) began investigating the Manhattan Club in 2014 after receiving repeated complaints from shareowners who paid tens of thousands of dollars to become Manhattan Club “owners,” but were unable to make reservations due to a claimed lack of available rooms by the hotel’s operators. At the same time, rooms in the Manhattan Club were being rented over the internet to the general public, in violation of the timeshare’s offering plan.

In Spring 2014, OAG sent undercover investigators to record the Manhattan Club’s “Vacation Ownership Experience” sales presentation. Investigators found evidence indicating that the Manhattan Club’s sales tactics amounted to a bait-and-switch scheme.

Prospective purchasers were baited by a relentless sales pitch that included a number of misleading promises, including that ownership in the Manhattan Club is “better than money in the bank.” Prospective buyers were also told that the club does not rent rooms to the general public, that reservations were easy to make, and that few restrictions apply to reservations by owners. But these promises were false. For example, contrary to the club’s explicit promises in its offering plan, room availability to owners was greatly limited because rooms were being rented out to the general public. That means that all reservations are subject to availability and owners, in some cases, were unable to use any of the time they purchased. Further, the owners’ annual common charges jumped approximately 200% in the last ten years – to about $2,000 per ownership interest per year for the smaller units – on top of the upfront purchase costs that ranged from just under $10,000 to over $40,000 per ownership interest. Some frustrated owners have sold their ownership interests back for a mere $1, just to escape the burdens of paying these charges.

In July 2014, pursuant to General Business Law section 354, a provision of New York’s Martin Act that confers broad powers on the Attorney General to investigate and halt fraud, a Manhattan Supreme Court justice barred the Manhattan Club from selling timeshare interests, preventing them from withdrawing money from certain bank accounts, and stopping them from foreclosing on Manhattan Club purchasers during the pendency of the investigation.

For information about how to protect yourself from timeshare, home improvement and vacation scams, click here for the Attorney General’s brochure “Don’t Get Burned: Attorney General’s Guide To Protecting New Yorkers From Summer Scams.”

This case was handled by Louis M. Solomon, Chief of Enforcement in the Real Estate Finance Bureau, with assistance from Assistant Attorneys General Nicholas Minella and Kimberley Ver Ploeg in the Real Estate Finance Bureau, as well as Matthew Woodruff, Senior Enforcement Counsel, Assistant Attorney General Tanya Trakht, and paralegals Natalya Fadeyeva and Pascual Noble in the Investor Protection Bureau with notable contribution by Jonathan Werberg, Senior Data Scientist, Research & Analytics. This case was investigated by former Supervising Investigators Luis Carter and Michael Ward, Supervising Investigator Sylvia Rivera, Investigators Karon Richardson, Elsa Rojas and Former Sr. Investigator Richard Friedman, under the direction of Deputy Chief John McManus and Chief Dominick Zarrella of the Investigations Bureau. Former Assistant Attorneys General Serwat Farooq and Elissa Rossi also assisted on the case. The Real Estate Finance Bureau is led by Bureau Chief Brent Meltzer and overseen by Executive Deputy Attorney General for Economic Justice Manisha M. Sheth.

View the settlement document https://ag.ny.gov/sites/default/files/manhattan-club-aod_0.pdf

Fibon, the press release is the equivalent of the AG declaring victory and going home. It provides context but is legally irrelevant. The AOD, which requires cutting and pasting the link at the end to view, is the only governing document.

Bluegreen has announced it will purchase any unsold inventory and the management contract from the developers. I have not sold them my time-share interest, so I don't expect any documents of any sort. How about you - have you sold?

I am a long time owner and have continued to pay my yearly maintenance fee which has become a burden. What are my options for either having the annual fee reduced to a reasonable amount or ridding myself of this timeshare altogether. I enjoy my week when I go but not at the current cost of maintenance. Please advise as to what my options are. Thank you.