Manhattan Club Lawsuit

Don't pay...stopped paying a few years ago

So during this week -Has anyone heard whether any progress has been made in obtaining the list of owners?

RE: pay fees? I also have owned since 2001 and then moved to NYC in 2003. I still pay and rent to friend at 25% discount on my fee. I wasn't sure she was renting this year so I delayed my payment due last October til this month/January. The absurdly high interest/late fees were 'waved'. But I was told they have policy to NEVER waive these late charges again. Per Danielle in billing. Also, I request every year a bill with a DATE DUE, but never receive one. Who does that?

chrisv126 wrote:

what were the results of tucker's meeting with TMC's board of directors regarding access to the owners' contact list? this is critical information needed by owners which hasn't been addressed here since mr zimmerman's court hearing on december 12, 2018. it is assumed that one of redweek.com's contributors will shed revealing light on this matter in the very near future.

this is the same question i asked a few responses above. has any progress been made by tucker or zimmerman getting the TMC owners' contact list? someone here must have a reliable answer, and much possible action is hanging in the balance regarding the answer to this question.

chris

tulipblossom wrote:

So during this week -Has anyone heard whether any progress has been made in obtaining the list of owners?

What will be the repercussion of quit paying the maintenance fees ?? Any penalty ?? I have not tried it. I do not think there is a due date and have never seen a due date. I paid a few months before I flew into the Big Apple in the past.

chrisv126 wrote:

this is the same question i asked a few responses above. has any progress been made by tucker or zimmerman getting the TMC owners' contact list? someone here must have a reliable answer, and much possible action is hanging in the balance regarding the answer to this question.

chris

tulipblossom wrote:

So during this week -Has anyone heard whether any progress has been made in obtaining the list of owners?

Perhaps Zimmerman has asked his clients to refrain from divulging information here, ...FOR FREE..., about the results of his legal services in behalf of paying customers.

The due date is your purchase anniversary date. Anything paid after that date is subject to late fees/penalties and interest on the unpaid debt. As an aside TMC has made it a practice to invoice for maintenance fees many many months in advance of that due date.

The gamble many of us have taken is that any collection proceeding brought before a court of law would be laughable. To the best of my knowledge, short of a few small claims actions, this opinion has not been tested. Can TMC report unpaid obligations to credit agencies? Sure. But to date it does not appear they've done so. My personal feeling is that I'm willing to take the risk of non-payment. I feel there is signifiant enough evidence within the NYAG case that shows breach of contract on behalf of TMC. It is my personal opinion that I have been wronged and have suffered a significant loss in value of an asset purchased from TMC due to the perceived breach. I also feel the NYAG case stripped the current owners negotiating ability to collect current and past due maintenance fees.

In short we are at a stalemate as to two possible outcomes. One: a new manager will follow through with what I think the intent of the NYAG's direction was by purchasing the business and restoring the value to the owners. And the second is the current management style of a scorched earth approach to the owners will continue. Unfortunately, the latter seems to be where we are heading. This is based on the appearance of cooperation between the current management and Blue Green's history. With respect to the former many of us are disappointed with the lack of follow through with the NYAG case. The appearance is the settlement was more for political gains of individuals than it was to remedy or restore value to the owners.

There is a contingency of owners that feel they are getting their money's worth and the increased fees are the fault of those of us that have stopped paying. I'd argue that the hike in fees started long before the exodus of owners electing to stop paying the fees started. Personally, I'm guilty of paying the higher fees for years before I opted to stop being taken for granted by TMC. The exact numbers of paying vs. non-paying can only be speculated based on the annual reporting and budgetary figures provided by TMC. One of the long time suspicions by many owners is that TMC oversold ownership. It's also speculated by several of us (myself included) that is why TMC has not released the list of owners. Doing so could admit criminal wrong doing on behalf of the managers.

Sorry for the long winded response that has been covered multiple times over more than 200 pages on this forum alone. There are other internet outlets where someone can research the saga we owners find ourselves in. But it seems there are several newer posts that have requested we re-hash the past. Mine is only one opinion - I'd encourage the recent posters to study the history. Read the NYAG settlement, it'll only take about an hour of your time, about as long as TMC took giving you a sales pitch to fork over the purchase price. https://ag.ny.gov/sites/default/files/manhattan-club-aod_0.pdf

Robert, you have eloquently summarized the current situation between TMC and all of the defrauded owners and I thank you for writing such an intelligent, organized response to the question as to whether one should continue to pay the exorbitant maintenance fees. I too paid these ridiculous fees for several years before I came to the decision to stop paying. I do not regret my decision and I will fight the fight with every weapon in my arsenal if and when TMC or BLUEGREEN decides to take action against me. As far as I’m concerned, and my attorney agrees, TMC is in breach of contract.

What is the goal of the legal actions that Mr. Zimmerman is undertaking? Is this an effort to find a way out of the ownership bind that we're in? I recently unloaded a timeshare that had been acquired after bankruptcy by Diamond Resorts Int'l. They have a take-back program. that they call "Transitions". We paid them $250 for processing and they took back the property. We received no compensation for the $25,000 we paid for the timeshare but at least have no obligation to keep paying the escalating (not as steep as TMC) maintenance fees.

JT, that scenario of paying $250 to be rid of the timeshare is one that probably a lot of TMC owners would welcome. We have paid our fees since '05 even though they don't make much sense since 1 could stay at TMC or some other hotel for less. I would like to pose another question for this group: remember the AG settlement that Eichner was to pay some 3+ million immediately in 2017, then another 1.625 million on each of the next 2 year's. So the 2018 payment should have been paid last summer and it was to be distributed to those folks who owned in 2011 to 2014 and were still in good standing in 2018. Has anyone received any thing in this regard????? I am sure it will be miniscule but never the less it should be forthcoming. I hope if someone received any funds that it will be reported on this blog.

I have not paid any fees for several years because I consider it throwing good money after bad. When we purchased our timeshare I specifically asked whether there are taxes and maintenance fees like we have on our condo in Fla. I was told told they would never be more than 100 to 200 dollars per year. Clearly, this was a lie.Meantime, we have refinanced some property and there was no mention of MC in our credit report. We got a very favorable interest rate and our FICO score remains in the 840 to 850 range. Les

Yes, many of us, myself included, received a very small reimbursement check back at the end of 2018 - it was due to the settlement. I didn't know if my name was on the list because I had been supplying info. to the Attorney General's office - in fact I had even received a phone call from one of the asst. attorney generals during the investigation and I was on the phone for 90 minutes with her discussing my experiences and the sales pitch given to me. I was so in hopes that criminal penalties would have been levied against Eichner with much more reimbursement to us who were defrauded. I am part of the Zimmerman litigation as that seemed to be the only hope at this stage. I have continued to pay my maintenance fees but I am very, very disenchanted and others are correct, an outsider can rent a week or less directly from the Manhattan Club for much less than our yearly maintenance fee and you can certainly find less expensive , nice accommodations in NYC for less than our fees.

hello,

"Perhaps Zimmerman has asked his clients to refrain from divulging information here, ...FOR FREE..., about the results of his legal services in behalf of paying customers.............." agreed........in part. of course, information regarding the strategies of zimmerman's actions regarding establishing a lawsuit probably should be privileged and confidential. nevertheless, the info about the owners' contact list is something to be shared in this forum for zimmerman's ultimate success in adding more clients (and money) toward his making this suit (s) happen. i don't know why there is such overwhelming secrecy about this LIST. i, and many other TMC owners make decisions concerning this lawsuit based on our impression of the degree percentage of the success of the suit. without question, the more people who join, the better it is for owners and obviously zimmerman.

let us know in this TMC/REDWEEK forum if this owners' contact list has been made available. it's to everyone's advantage

dennisc283 wrote:

chrisv126 wrote:

this is the same question i asked a few responses above. has any progress been made by tucker or zimmerman getting the TMC owners' contact list? someone here must have a reliable answer, and much possible action is hanging in the balance regarding the answer to this question.

chris

tulipblossom wrote:

So during this week -Has anyone heard whether any progress has been made in obtaining the list of owners?

Perhaps Zimmerman has asked his clients to refrain from divulging information here, ...FOR FREE..., about the results of his legal services in behalf of paying customers.

There is nothing concrete yet about the owner list - it’s going to take time for both sides to come to some agreement on this. But it is in process. And - you are correct - Mr Zimmerman will most likely share a private update soon ....to only those who hired him. That is pretty fair I think. He gave his strategy and asked for support many times - and I sincerely thank thoseof you for believing in him and sending in that check. He definitely feels our pain and hopes he can help. He is pretty relentless. This NYC court system is not easy nor is this case!

sueo79,

from your response, it appears that no information about the availability the owners' contact list will be included here. that lack of either a yes or no........we have use of the list or not......is a detriment to zimmerman. " Zimmerman will most likely share a private update soon ....to only those who hired him".....your quote. this information should be shared with all owners. it could mean more of us wanting him as our attorney. zimmerman is not giving away any attorney privilege or confidentiality. it could certainly be information that would be of assistance to all owners to make reasonable decisions.

i am not asking zimmerman to share or release his legal strategy; that would be unprofessional and to his detriment. share only a "yes or no" about his ability to use the owner contact list to connect with the majority of TMC owners. this is not giving away any attorney privilege. "This NYC court system is not easy nor is this case!".....again, your quote, which is a truism in itself. i admire zimmerman for taking on this monumental task with a challenging nyc court system; however, his response in sharing information regarding the list remains an essential component for all owners. i look forward to reading about the progress being made to secure the use of TMC owners' contact list. (i assume that if the list is made available, it would most likely be used only under court supervision for privacy considerations.)

sueo79 wrote:

There is nothing concrete yet about the owner list - it’s going to take time for both sides to come to some agreement on this. But it is in process. And - you are correct - Mr Zimmerman will most likely share a private update soon ....to only those who hired him. That is pretty fair I think. He gave his strategy and asked for support many times - and I sincerely thank thoseof you for believing in him and sending in that check. He definitely feels our pain and hopes he can help. He is pretty relentless. is not giving away any attorney privilege. it could certainly be information that would be of assistance to all owners to make reasonable decisions. This NYC court system is not easy nor is this case! !

For those of you debating whether to pay maintenance fees while hoping for other legal results, here is a reasonable way to take a 'wait and see' approach to your TMC ownership. Pay your fees, get a good reservation, then list it on RedWeek.com for rent. Many owners already do this, but obviously many do not. I have rented TMC rooms on RedWeek from owners who were happy to get $200 or more per night for a junior suite. The process is easy and inexpensive. In fact, you can list your TMC interval for rent and for resale on RedWeek for under $100 for a six month listing. In my opinion, this is one of the best bargains in timeshare. FYI, I write news articles and Ask RedWeek columns for RW, so you can assume I am biased. But I am also a timeshare owner who has successfully rented many of my units on RW in the past --- long before I started writing news articles for RW. As all of you know, there will be no quick resolution of the legal issues involving the club, so I heartily recommend renting your intervals on RW in the meantime. It is a good way to recover some if not all of your maintenance fees. Check it out.

jeff_reports wrote:

For those of you debating whether to pay maintenance fees while hoping for other legal results, here is a reasonable way to take a 'wait and see' approach to your TMC ownership. Pay your fees, get a good reservation, then list it on RedWeek.com for rent. Many owners already do this, but obviously many do not. I have rented TMC rooms on RedWeek from owners who were happy to get $200 or more per night for a junior suite. The process is easy and inexpensive. In fact, you can list your TMC interval for rent and for resale on RedWeek for under $100 for a six month listing. In my opinion, this is one of the best bargains in timeshare. FYI, I write news articles and Ask RedWeek columns for RW, so you can assume I am biased. But I am also a timeshare owner who has successfully rented many of my units on RW in the past --- long before I started writing news articles for RW. As all of you know, there will be no quick resolution of the legal issues involving the club, so I heartily recommend renting your intervals on RW in the meantime. It is a good way to recover some if not all of your maintenance fees. Check it out.

We have ‘owned’ at TMC since the late 1990’s (and other timeshares). The maintenance inflation and fee subsidy cut-off schedule were not fully disclosed to SOME TMC owners. We had lots of problems getting reservations-but never were denied (we worked the system & had flexibility). They have loosened reservations fie those who are current on mortgages and maintenance. Those who are updated with fees etc might try making reservations again. I get the sense that many have given up. If you still like the place, try again...and don’t settle for old news.

robert, i second beckyf's response to your comments 90%...............here's my take on about the other 10% of your well-written statement.

your quote, " One of the long time suspicions by many owners is that TMC oversold ownership. It's also speculated by several of us (myself included) that is why TMC has not released the list of owners. Doing so could admit criminal wrong doing on behalf of the managers." i believe that fraud was admitted to by eichner during the schneiderman legal hearings. fraud, especially since committed so openly and to such an extent, is a criminal offense. schneiderman accepted eichner's plea deal to end the legal proceedings and "WIN" his case as a political (BS) VICTORY, perhaps a feather in his cap. and indirectly in cuomo's cap as well. the criminal offense issue should have been pursued. eichner would almost definitely be given a comfy cell, albeit without the benefit of the 26 floor lounge! another quote: " I feel there is signifiant enough evidence within the NYAG case that shows breach of contract on behalf of TMC. It is my personal opinion that I have been wronged and have suffered a significant loss in value of an asset purchased from TMC due to the perceived breach.".......a perfect interpretation which i agree to fully. breach of contract would have had its own penalties attached, again, an issue overlooked by schneiderman.......much too suspicious for me to swallow.

since you think and write so clearly, what's your take on not yet getting information about zimmerman (or tucker) getting access to the TMC owners' contact list? i have written quite extensively here (RW) about this and finally got an unsatisfactory response from sueo which can be read a few comments down.

keep in touch

Thank you for the update, SueO. "There is nothing concrete yet about the owner list" seems pretty clear to me.

chrisv126 wrote:

robert, i second beckyf's response to your comments 90%...............here's my take on about the other 10% of your well-written statement.

your quote, " One of the long time suspicions by many owners is that TMC oversold ownership. It's also speculated by several of us (myself included) that is why TMC has not released the list of owners. Doing so could admit criminal wrong doing on behalf of the managers." i believe that fraud was admitted to by eichner during the schneiderman legal hearings. fraud, especially since committed so openly and to such an extent, is a criminal offense. schneiderman accepted eichner's plea deal to end the legal proceedings and "WIN" his case as a political (BS) VICTORY, perhaps a feather in his cap. and indirectly in cuomo's cap as well. the criminal offense issue should have been pursued. eichner would almost definitely be given a comfy cell, albeit without the benefit of the 26 floor lounge! another quote: " I feel there is signifiant enough evidence within the NYAG case that shows breach of contract on behalf of TMC. It is my personal opinion that I have been wronged and have suffered a significant loss in value of an asset purchased from TMC due to the perceived breach.".......a perfect interpretation which i agree to fully. breach of contract would have had its own penalties attached, again, an issue overlooked by schneiderman.......much too suspicious for me to swallow.

since you think and write so clearly, what's your take on not yet getting information about zimmerman (or tucker) getting access to the TMC owners' contact list? i have written quite extensively here (RW) about this and finally got an unsatisfactory response from sueo which can be read a few comments down.

keep in touch

It’s very strange to me that you, who launched an alternate group on the heels of Zimmerman trying to amass enough owners to finance his efforts for owners. Yet you keep carping about not receiving information from that effort. Yet, you have not reported results of your Coalition and your alternative approach to Zimmerman. Come’on man!!