Is Getting Rid of Timeshares a Problem?

Your response completely avoids (evades?) addressing and / or answering the question asked, instead simply making a lame "era" reference so I'll try again, one last time:

How and why does THE INDUSTRY have any responsibility to provide an "orderly exit" from a product purchase freely and voluntarily made by a buyer, with buyer's full knowledge that the product was not going to be "returnable" years later when unwanted or inconvenient?

How and why should a buyer have no personal responsibility or accountability to find a willing new owner entirely on their own for a product which they freely and voluntarily CHOSE to purchase and use --- maybe for years, or for a decade, or even longer?

Try "returning" a car, house or refrigerator to the seller after CHOOSING to buy it and then using it for years before deciding you don't want it any more. Good luck with that too.

How many people have ever gone in to a timeshare office and demanded to buy a timeshare? Nobody.... Timeshares are sold through OPCs who promise nice gifts to unsuspecting "prospects" in exchange for a 90 minute to 2 hour presentation. The "prospects" are told that they will get their gifts at the end of the presentation. Then, the short presentation lasts 3, 4 or 5 hours and the pressure to buy goes up and up. And the price goes down and down. That is how timeshares are sold. As Richard Siegel says on a Youtube video - "All our sales are made on the first day." I would never use the word "voluntary" in describing this process.

What if, during the closing session, the salesman said that, "Your new purchase will have little or no resale value in 90 days. Additionally, you will be expected to pay maintenance fees after the purchase price is paid off. And, you can't get out of paying those fees, no matter what happens to you. Maintenance fees are in perpetuity." Ken, how many timeshare owners would there be?

One can junk a car. One can throw away a refrigerator. And one can walk away from a house. There may be credit ramifications, but one can walk away from a house. But timeshare companies - that's a different story. They want their money. There are more sellers than buyers, and "the Industry" doesn't want to admit it. They only want that brand new prospect who is open to getting a free gift in exchange for that 90 minute presentation. You know - the one who will "voluntarily" buy their product after 5 hours. And then be a customer "in perpetuity."

Ken, the only constant in this universe is "change." And the timeshare companies are blind to it. Wyndham and Diamond have something in place to address this problem, but the rest of the industry does not. Jlb makes a good point. Nothing should be "in perpetuity."

I certainly know how it all works John, after several decades of direct personal involvement with timeshares (as a RESALE owner, never in any way associated with or ever employed by the industry --- and I never bought directly from a developer). I don't disagree with a word you've said but I respectfully note that we simply don't live in an "ideal" world. Instead, we live right here in the "real" world. Yes indeed, one of us need to "get real" here, but I'm not convinced that it's me....

Let's be honest ---- the one and only reason that Wyndham has its' "Ovation" program, or that DRI has its' own version of the same thing, is that they realize that they can basically get their (carefully screened and selected) "products" back for free, thereby creating new inventory to then just sell all over again (having sold it once already for tens of thousands of dollars). They then just turn right around and sell that exact same product all over gain to someone else --- once again for tens of thousands of dollars. A smart and profitable business practice for them, certainly. However, are you aware of the fact that since adoption of the Wyndham "Ovation" program, of the 50,000 Wyndham supplicants, only about HALF have actually been accepted? In other words, Wyndham doesn't want back and will not take anything that they can't turn right around and sell all over again for big bucks. So, what kind of solution is THAT for the other +/- 25,000 people for whom the Wyndham answer i simply "No, we won't take THAT back --- keep it"?

I'd also note that small independent timeshare facilities (of which there are many) without Wyndham's deep corporate pockets and marketing capabilities and sales personnel and sales facilities have no such option or capability available to them at all. Tell me, just what is a (unpaid, volunteer) HOA at a smaller timeshare facility possibly going to do with "returned" timeshares, which were once bought freely and voluntarily by their owners? Is that somehow a (volunteer, unpaid) HOA responsibility or problem to accept? Personally, I think not.

I did not invent the concept of "in perpetuity", but it's an indisputable legal fact here in the "real" world. Do I wish it was different? Sure --- but it ain't. THAT's "real" --- like it or not.

Your analogy: Try "returning" a car, house or refrigerator to the seller after CHOOSING to buy it and then using it for years before deciding you don't want it any more.” The difference is that there is a financial end option when owning a car, a refrigerator or even a house.

I have had my timeshare for 15+ years and have probably paid more in just maintenance fees than many timeshare owners have paid for their timeshare property in total. I cannot use my timeshare because units are unavailable due to overselling. I cannot deed back my timeshare because sales transactions are closed. I cannot even give my timeshare away. Who would accept ownership for something that cannot be used and pay thousands of dollars per year for maintenance fees….would you?

No one's blinder than he who will not see. I never have understood why someone would object to there being an orderly method to get rid of something.

I know of several successful resorts where the developer has been out of the picture for more than 20 years that are successful because their HOAs are progressive and deal head-on with the very-real exit strategy problem by helping their owners.

One has done so well with deedbacks and auctions and resales and rentals that my wife and I recently bought a week at it. I can't wait for the next auctions. That's what having an orderly exit strategy does . . . makes people comfortable, even excited, about buying.

Why would someone object to that?

Also, I don't like to confuse this issue by talking about developers and lying sales presentations. That's a whole nuther issue. I would certainly not expect David Siegel or Jim Gissy to take back the first week we bought in 1989, but it would not hurt their goodwill if their resorts did.

Well, so we have one guy saying something can't be done because he doesn't personally know it's being done, and we have another guy saying something can be done because he personally knows it is being done.

jlb wrote:

Well, so we have one guy saying something can't be done because he doesn't personally know it's being done, and we have another guy saying something can be done because he personally knows it is being done.

A simplistic and grossly inaccurate summation, but you are certainly entitled to express an opinion, even one clearly less than fully informed. This is, after all, a discussion forum.

For the record, after several decades of timeshare ownership I too am personally familiar with several HOA's at (independent) resorts at which we own intervals that will, in fact, accept some deedbacks if the owner account is current and not in arrears. In each of those instances however, the growing number of HOA-owned weeks (for which NO ONE pays maintenance fees until or unless those intervals get resold) places a significant strain on resort finances. All remaining owners then have to "pick up the slack" of the financial shortfall. Personally, I do not view that as a viable or sustainable "solution" for any resort, despite the obvious immediate benefit to those abandoning their intervals to the HOA.

You appear to believe that you alone have all the answers on this topic. I wonder if your sadly narrow perspective would be broadened by some time sitting on a HOA BoD --- if you could get elected in the first place. In any case, enjoy your monologue. Happy Holidays.

Well, all righty then!

Having been put in my subordinate place, I likely will not be back to this discussion, doing so serving no useful purpose.