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Manhattan Club Lawsuit
Hi,
I sent a letter to sellmytimeshare.com asking them to inform sellers. I have not yet received a response. In case that doesn't work it would be wonderful if your friend could scrap the site to get that info. Is there a charge for his services? We would make arrangements to mail letters or have calls made to TMC owners. One TMC owner has gone through the NYS ACRIS records and retrieved the names of 12, 000 TMC owners and put them in a spreadsheet as well.
Thanks Irene Smalls
Irene S.
janicef119 wrote:Please we need to do something to get our money back or something. I am widow and they sucked me in. I can't believe they can get away with this.
janice (f119), UNSCRUPULOUS BUSINESSPEOPLE CAN.....AND DO.....GET AWAY WITH ALL THE FRAUDULENT AND SCHEMING DEALS THEY CAN.....(BERNIE MADOFF IS A PRIME EXAMPLE, BUT HE EVENTUALLLY GOT HIS DUE.) ONE OF THE REASONS IS: THEY (IAN BRUCE EICHNER AND HIS GANG) ARE SAVVY ABOUT HOW TO DO THIS AND SURROUND THEMSELVES WITH A CADRE OF LEGAL AND FINANCIAL EXPERTS WHO ARE ABLE TO THUMB THEIR NOSES AT OUR LEGAL SYSTEM, INCLUDING THE NEW YORK STATE ATTORNEY GENERAL. KEEP IN MIND THAT EICHNER'S GROUP OF ATTORNEYS GETS PAID MUCH MORE THE THE NY ATTORNEY GENERAL AND HIS DEPUTIES AND ASSISTANTS. THIS COULD BE A VERY TELLING OCCURANCE: I WOULD ASSUME EICHNER'S ATTORNEYS WORK HARDER TO KEEP THEIR MONIED POSITIONS STABLE.
i wish us all good luck in all of our collective efforts to get some kind of JUSTICE FOR ALL OWNERS. I WONDER IF A DEMONSTRATION IN FRONT OF THE MANHATTAN CLUB WOULD BE OF ANY HELP FOR ALL SHAREOWNERS...............FOOD FOR THOUGHT.
chris.
ps: keep in touch.
Chris V.
i received trusted advice from someone highly informed about the ins and outs of developers' timeshare dealings, frauds and unscrupulous schemes. we need to be kept informed of the progress of THE NEW YORK STATE ATTORNEY GENERAL VS THE MANHATTAN CLUB, of the day to day (or at least on a regular basis) legal proceedings as they occur. his suggestion: all of us need to bombard the NYS ATTORNEY GENERAL with letters and contacts containing our complaints against THE MANHATTAN CLUB including our experiences with the sales department, the unavailability of desired reservations and the exorbitant increases in our maintenance fees (and other issues not necessarily common to us all.) we need to request information about the legal proceedings to which we are entitled per our public record rights. these NYSAG contacts could be via email, u s mail or telephone (and a record kept of these contacts). copies of these contacts must be sent to other interested and influential entities: redweek.com, the nyc mayor, gov cuomo, new york media: daily news, wall st journal, crain's ny business, cnbc, ny post, consumer advocate groups (i could go on...........BE CREATIVE!) LETS MAKE THIS A CONCERTED EFFORT ON BEHALF OF ALL OF US WHO HAVE BEEN CHEATED AND DEFRAUDED BY THE DEVELOPERS OF THE MANHATTAN CLUB. LET'S GET TO IT IMMEDIATELY. MY EMAIL TO NYS AG ERIC SCHNEIDERMAN, WILL BE SENT BY THE END OF THIS WEEK, WITH COPIES TO MOST OF THE ABOVE-MENTIONED MEDIA. GET MOVING NOW. DO YOUR PART FOR YOUR OWN SAKE. SIMPLE COMPLAINING IN THIS FORUM ISN'T HELPING ANYONE. TAKE SOME POSITIVE AND PROACTIVE ACTION NOW.
CHRIS VOLPE
Chris V.
As someone who talks to the AG's office, Eichner's reps, MC owners who contribute to this forum, and to people in the timeshare business, I would like to offer the following observations about some of the current topics dominating this forum. 1. The Manhattan Club is the only entity that possesses a full list of all owners. Other timeshare websites, such as sellmytimeshare.now, are NOT in the business of releasing their client lists, and won't do it. That site claims to have generated 20,040 offers for MC listings --- but offers are not owners, so don't hang on to that number as meaningful. 2. The AG's office does not feel ANY obligation to inform all owners about the investigation; nor do they publish or release weekly updates on cases. This is even more true when they are negotiating with the parties they are investigating, which is no doubt what's happening between the AG's attorneys and the attorneys representing Eichner and the club. The AG does not consider it a public obligation or responsibility to notify owners. They consider this a nuisance, so they are not going to do it. 3. The AG's office will announce what it wants, when it wants, and that's it. The AG is a law enforcement agency that is also very political. This means, in practice, they don't take on cases they think they're going to lose. In general, law enforcement agencies pursue cases that they expect to win. 4. Some MC owners put a lot of emphasis (way too much, in my opinion) on how much they think Eichner's attorneys are getting paid to defend the MC, and on how poorly paid the AG's attorneys must be. These owners are prolonging a stereotype that, in many cases, falls apart. Their assumption is that higher-paid attorneys are better and connected to the judges, and, as a result, always win. Here's my experience. Attorneys for agencies like the AG are cutting their teeth on cases like this. Money's not the issue for them. They're not being paid by the billable hour. They're in it to win, because there is no monetary payoff --- which makes them perhaps much more powerful than the attorneys who bill Eichner by the minute for even thinking about this case. Eichner's attorneys and PR people get paid regardless of outcome. 5. The most compelling aspects of the AG's case are all on tape, and seemingly impossible to rebut or defend. The AG sent undercover investigators into the club earlier this year to go through sales presentations. The investigators videotaped everything. Those tapes were presented to the NY court as supporting material for the court order barring new sales and foreclosures. There is no way, in my experience, that the club or Eichner's attorneys can offer any explanation or denial to the courts that will undo the damage caused by the statements of the MC sales people who were caught on tape. These tapes are the Watergate Tapes for the Manhattan Club.
Jeffrey W.
jeff_reports wrote:As someone who talks to the AG's office, Eichner's reps, MC owners who contribute to this forum, and to people in the timeshare business, I would like to offer the following observations about some of the current topics dominating this forum. 1. The Manhattan Club is the only entity that possesses a full list of all owners. Other timeshare websites, such as sellmytimeshare.now, are NOT in the business of releasing their client lists, and won't do it. That site claims to have generated 20,040 offers for MC listings --- but offers are not owners, so don't hang on to that number as meaningful. 2. The AG's office does not feel ANY obligation to inform all owners about the investigation; nor do they publish or release weekly updates on cases. This is even more true when they are negotiating with the parties they are investigating, which is no doubt what's happening between the AG's attorneys and the attorneys representing Eichner and the club. The AG does not consider it a public obligation or responsibility to notify owners. They consider this a nuisance, so they are not going to do it. 3. The AG's office will announce what it wants, when it wants, and that's it. The AG is a law enforcement agency that is also very political. This means, in practice, they don't take on cases they think they're going to lose. In general, law enforcement agencies pursue cases that they expect to win. 4. Some MC owners put a lot of emphasis (way too much, in my opinion) on how much they think Eichner's attorneys are getting paid to defend the MC, and on how poorly paid the AG's attorneys must be. These owners are prolonging a stereotype that, in many cases, falls apart. Their assumption is that higher-paid attorneys are better and connected to the judges, and, as a result, always win. Here's my experience. Attorneys for agencies like the AG are cutting their teeth on cases like this. Money's not the issue for them. They're not being paid by the billable hour. They're in it to win, because there is no monetary payoff --- which makes them perhaps much more powerful than the attorneys who bill Eichner by the minute for even thinking about this case. Eichner's attorneys and PR people get paid regardless of outcome. 5. The most compelling aspects of the AG's case are all on tape, and seemingly impossible to rebut or defend. The AG sent undercover investigators into the club earlier this year to go through sales presentations. The investigators videotaped everything. Those tapes were presented to the NY court as supporting material for the court order barring new sales and foreclosures. There is no way, in my experience, that the club or Eichner's attorneys can offer any explanation or denial to the courts that will undo the damage caused by the statements of the MC sales people who were caught on tape. These tapes are the Watergate Tapes for the Manhattan Club.
hi jeff, fyi re "The AG does not consider it a public obligation or responsibility to notify owners. They consider this a nuisance, so they are not going to do it. 3. The AG's office will announce what it wants, when it wants, and that's it. The AG is a law enforcement agency that is also very political." the AG puts out a weekly (or at least regular) email newsletter from his office highlighting several of the cases he's involved with. for the most part, these cases are often more universal than our relatively small case in terms of how many NEW YORKERS it effects. (eg, the MC sells worldwide, so owners are represented by that fact; therefore many are not NEW YORKERS; real estate=location, location, location......politics=vote, votes, votes. the math speaks for itself.) i think my point is evident. yes, the AG wants to win cases he initiates. winning the MC case won't garner significant votes. "The AG's office will announce what it wants, when it wants, and that's it."......to the extent of weighing the political benefits of disseminating selective legislative information and progress concerning his law suits. please correct any of my assumptions.
keep in touch. chris volpe cfox863@gmail.com
Chris V.
hi Irene,
We gave information about 3 years ago to the first lawsuit against MC (law firm name escapes me- Blaus, or something like that) Anyway, what should we do at this point as owners? I hate paying these upcoming maintenance fees! It seems to be going into a black hole. As I understand it, MC can't foreclose on owners or sell any more units, in this latest decision in July? If that is correct, (I'm sure I'm being too optimistic) and if they can't foreclose, would that mean that owners can just "walk" on their ownerships and not fear any severe penalties?
Deirdre A.
deirdrea6 wrote:hi Irene,We gave information about 3 years ago to the first lawsuit against MC (law firm name escapes me- Blaus, or something like that) Anyway, what should we do at this point as owners? I hate paying these upcoming maintenance fees! It seems to be going into a black hole. As I understand it, MC can't foreclose on owners or sell any more units, in this latest decision in July? If that is correct, (I'm sure I'm being too optimistic) and if they can't foreclose, would that mean that owners can just "walk" on their ownerships and not fear any severe penalties?
DEIDRE, currently, not paying your maintenance fees is not cause for foreclosure, as i understand the current conditions of the lawsuit. (NYS/NYC PROPERTY TAXES MUST BE PAID, REGARDLESS.) however,you don't have the legal right to "walk".....away from your share in the MC since you have a deed indicating your ownership. in addition, not paying your maintenance fees could be cause for your not being permitted to make reservations...............as i interpret the ground rules.
verify my above comments with someone who may be more knowledgeable about the legalities involved.
WE HAVE GOT TO WIN THIS CASE AND BRING EICHNER TO RIGHT HIS CONSCIENCE TOWARD US (HIS SHAREHOLDERS) AND FOR HIM TO GIVE US WHAT WE THOUGHT WE WERE BUYING FROM HIM.
keep in touch.
chris
Chris V.
Paying maintenance fees: It's my understanding that they cannot hold you to the contract conditions, if they have broken the contract. That is certainly the case with TMC. Why should we owners have to continually pay into TMC and not get what we were promised. Many of us have already paid for units in full and only have the main tenance fees, but with them being so high already and increasing in leaps and bounds each year... there is no end in sight. They have made how many revisions to the contracts? They don't even know how many revisions according to the court records. This was stated in one of the documents from the proceedings. they lost count of how many they had actually made. I see no reason for continuing to pay them. The NY taxes may be a different story, but NY state taxes are included in the fees correct? How can you know how much is maintenance and how much is tax for NYC & NYS.
Vanessa S.
VANESSA, to get real estate tax figures from MC, connect with the FINANCIAL SERVICES OFFICE. if they're attached to the maintenance fees, they MUST tell you what portion is for taxes and YOU MUST request that they mail you a tax bill for the amount of the taxes. REMINDER, THE TAX IS DEDUCTIBLE ON YOUR INCOME TAX RETURN, BOTH STATE (according to your residence state) AND FEDERAL. unless you rent your shares, maintenance fees are NOT DEDUCTIBLE.
good luck..............TO ALL OF US!!!!!!
CHRIS
vanessa175 wrote:Paying maintenance fees: It's my understanding that they cannot hold you to the contract conditions, if they have broken the contract. That is certainly the case with TMC. Why should we owners have to continually pay into TMC and not get what we were promised. Many of us have already paid for units in full and only have the main tenance fees, but with them being so high already and increasing in leaps and bounds each year... there is no end in sight. They have made how many revisions to the contracts? They don't even know how many revisions according to the court records. This was stated in one of the documents from the proceedings. they lost count of how many they had actually made. I see no reason for continuing to pay them. The NY taxes may be a different story, but NY state taxes are included in the fees correct? How can you know how much is maintenance and how much is tax for NYC & NYS.
Chris V.
There has to be something us owners can do about be cheated by The MC. Isn't any of the owners government officials or attorneys they may know what we can do. I found out that they charged my CC last Mar for 2015 maintenance fees . That is crazy. I was not going to pay cancelled CC they had on file.
Janice F.
janicef119 wrote:There has to be something us owners can do about be cheated by The MC. Isn't any of the owners government officials or attorneys they may know what we can do. I found out that they charged my CC last Mar for 2015 maintenance fees . That is crazy. I was not going to pay cancelled CC they had on file.
janice, call the MC FINANCIAL OFFICE; tell them to credit your credit card account for the the amount that they charged (deducted from) for maintenance and demand that they take your credit card information off their computer. verify this has been done with your credit card company. NEVER LEAVE YOUR CREDIT CARD INFORMATION WITH AN UNSCRUPULOUS AND AN ALLEGEDLY FRAUDULENT COMPANY: THE MANHATTAN CLUB. KEEP IN MIND THAT THE MANHATTAN CLUB MUST SEND YOU A NYS/NYC PROPERTY TAX STATEMENT WHICH MUST BE PAID.................after all of this MC crap, you don't need nyc/nys to be part of your burden.
keep in touch,
chris
Chris V.
Aren't these deeded timeshares recorded in the NYC Register of Finance somewhere and we can find all owners there?
irenes93 wrote:On sellmytimesharenow.com alone there are 20,040 TMC owners looking to sell. TMC says they have 14,000+ owners for their 286 rooms.We are going to need paid clerical help to contact the owners. Our committee is too small to handle 20,040 owners. Alternately, if we can find a computer programmer to write us a program to pull TMC owner details from the web or a company that specializes in developing lists that could work as well. Any with ideas or suggestions please contact me.
Time is important. TMC is trying to settle the AG's case as soon as possible.
Anne Y.
Contact the City Councillor for the Manhattan Club. Ask him to have a public hearing on the Manhattan Club Timeshare scam operating in his district.
DANIEL R. GARODNICK District 4 - Council Member - Democrat Chair - Committee on Economic Development Daniel R. Garodnick first entered the New York City Council in 2006, as the representative for District 4 -- Upper East Side, Central Park South, Grand Central, Tudor City, Waterside, Peter Cooper Village, Carnegie Hill, Stuyvesant Town, United Nations; part of Yorkville, Turtle Bay.
Contact Information District Office Address 211 East 43rd Street Suite 1205 New York, NY 10017 District Office Phone 212-818-0580 District Office Fax 212-818-0706 Legislative Office Address 250 Broadway Suite 1762 New York, NY 10007 Legislative Office Phone 212-788-7393 Legislative Office Fax 212-442-1457 Email
Irene S.
johne662 wrote:Random thought: since we all pay NYC real estate taxes does that entitle us to representation by the NY Attorney General even if we live in another state?
strictly my opinion: you own property in nys, therefore.....real estate tax. you're registered to vote in another state, therefore..... no direct nys ag representation. however, non new yorkers will probably get residual benefits from the ag's winning the better parts of this case since we're all owners of this fraud-ridden property called THE MANHATTAN CLUB.
keep in touch.
chris
Chris V.
We just got another notice about our maintenance fees being overdue. This time they are saying they will charge 16% late fee plus $50 if we don't pay them. Is MC still allowed to collect these fees while the lawsuit in going on? I thought there was a hold put on collection of fees. What do you advise we do? Thanks, Patty
Patty H.
NYAG court order does not address maintenance fee issue. However, it does allow Manhattan Club to keep paying employees who collect maintenance fees. The court order bans new timeshare sales and foreclosures, which means the club cannot start a foreclosure action against an owner for nonpayment of fees. When and if the court order is changed, however, the club may resume foreclosures --- that is, if the club is still in business. Consult a real lawyer, not this forum, for legal advice on payment of fees. Or read the fine print on your contract. Or call the person who wrote you letter threatening fines and find out what your options are. From a personal standpoint, I don't see the wisdom in paying new money to a company that is being investigated for possible fraud.
Jeffrey W.