Ripoff - Marriott Vacation Club Destinations Program - New Point System

again, you are not getting it. i did NOT contact Marriott to buy these points. they called me and said they needed me to come in to talk about my Marriott ownership which i have owned for over 20 years as there was a new program regarding using my weeks. they lied to get me in there then lied to sell me these points. NO ONE who was properly informed would ever buy these points. i am not stupid.

I'm curious about a few questions/opinions for those of you who are extremely upset with the new system that Marriott is now selling (and with all due respect, please check the name calling and whatever chips you have on your shoulders at the door when offering your answers, I want to sincerely try to grasp a your perspective through facts more than through your personal feelings that are backing up your opinions. This tread has become hostile, and I would like to avoid adding fuel to the fire as they say. I know that most of the dissent is coming from a lot of comparison of the old program and the new in regards to expense (purchase price) and ability to resell, and also in regards to the value of the maintenance fees. As most of you may know, I own two legacy weeks as well as Trust points, and while I am not an attorney, I am a researcher, a fine printer if you will. To give you an idea of the lengths I went through before I purchased (and after, while still in my 10 days recission period) I went so far as to read the fine print in the I.I. book in the back as well as look into the public records of each individual property that was recorded in the land Trust in the Orange County Courthouse. I know exactly how many points make up the trust and where those points come from. I know which Resorts contributed a lot to the Trust and which ones haven't at all. I even pulled up the individual deeds at those properties to see which weeks were registered down to the building number and season of those weeks.

I will give myself a little more credit as to the responses given based on the facts, not my personal feelings. As I mentioned before, I first joined this blog to provide clarity, not to debate and argue, in hopes that understanding what exactly is happening may help others (and of course may not, but it was a risk I was willing to take).

So here are my questions to those of you who purchased your weeks directly from Marriott; How much did you pay? Were you aware that there were resales on the market that were cheaper but did not come with the ability to exchange for MRP? To the purchaser of the developer week (as I already know that some of you do not care about that aspect at all) did you feel that the inability to transfer the MRP aspect of your program was grounds for a lawsuit? Or did you see it more as a perk received for paying more for the timeshare from the developer versus buying a resale and then decided if the perk was worth (or not worth) the substantial upfront cost of that perk relative to the amount you could have saved from buying a resale?

I am like frappia, where I like my MRP and knew about resales. After much thought, I figured the upfront savings were not beneficial for me in the long run, considering that every two years, I could get a combination package with hotel and airfare for 2 which would have cost more out of pocket to take those same trips compared to my out of pocket Maintenance fees for the two weeks it takes to accrue enough points for a combo package. Initially, this was the only reason that I purchased my two weeks as I had rare plans to stay at a condo for a week. I will also agree that these combo packages are not as good as they used to be, but will also accept that inflation for the price of hotels and airline tickets have also increased, so I'm not here to comment on the good old days. I'm one of those people, that can accept things if I can understand it logically. It's not to mean that I have to like the changes, just that I can understand why things change.

Back to my question on how much did you pay? I am asking because I am curious on what you feel would be a fair price for what Marriott is currently selling. Keep in mind that it is a developer purchase, and keep it comparative to how much they sold weeks and we felt that was an okay price (again I am speaking to those who purchased directly from Marriott)

I ask this because I do not understand logic of people stating that this system is too expensive. I paid over $38K for my Lakeshore week (2 bedroom platinum plus) and a little over $26k for my other week. I knew about resales and that I could have saved almost 50% upfront, but again, for me it wasn't the upfront savings that I weighed, it was how many hotel and airfare trips could I take before breaking even from the upfront fees and then how much would I continue to spend if I still wanted to take those trips? I am relatively young, so for me I have a while before I die (Knock on wood, and a growing list of places I want to visit with the idea that sometime I will retire, so as my list grows, so will the amount of time I will have to take those trips).

I ask this question because I paid $18,400 for my Trust points. Considerably cheaper than the two weeks that I paid.

Before the issue becomes, how many points will it take to go to Newport Coast, or Aruba during Platinum Plus time, or Hawaii during Christmas, or a Ski week during Sundance festival, or Marco Island, etc...let me acknowledge that you are correct that the number of points required for those vacations and how much it would cost to take those vacations is expensive.

But then I'd like to hear from the owners that bought those weeks from the developer and how much those weeks cost compared to those who buy the required points.

Then let me ask you, if none of these weeks were ever deposited into Interval and the chances of exchanging into them were rare if not impossible, my question now becomes...would it be worth it to have it available when you want them, and if so....how much would it be worth? Not saying you would buy it, but do you think that the price should be affected by having the ability to actually have the chance to go during those times? Meaning what's it worth to you in dollars to not have to deal with Interval and waitlists, and just be able to call, book, and get a reservation instantly? Is it even worth any additional money?

Can't really recount all the frustration that I've had where I truly wouldn't mind just paying for the convenience of being able to book where I want when I want...so that played into a little of my decision to buy Trust points.

There are currently over 137,462,250 points in the Trust corresponding to the unsold inventory weeks which was never available in Interval. Interval only had the weeks that owners bought and decided to deposit with them. I could only exchange with other Marriott owners. I may have had access to 20-30% of what Marriott actually had built, while the other 70-80% sat on a shelf somewhere until a sales rep made a sale.

Throw into the mix, those like myself that trade for MRP (those weeks weren't deposited into Interval), those of us that use our home resort, (also not deposited into Interval) and then all those non-marriott owners who exchanged in (which was one less week I could use for my own exchange)....I was aggravated that sometimes my exchanges didn't always come through or that they did after a while, which puts everything on hold...like booking airfare, or having a plan B location. I dislike settling and would accept a plan B, but really wish I didn't have to. EVER.

I will acknowledge that Trust points aren't magical and now all of the sudden those exchange issues won't affect me, however, so far from personal experience, they really haven't. I was even able to finally get my Marco Island that I've been chasing for the past two years. I will also concede that I did not have enough points for a full week, but did have enough for 6 days. Living in Florida, I figured the sacrifice of 6 days and coming home early was better than not going at all. And when I checked Interval, they didn't have anything. 15 minutes later, I had my confirmation number for a 2 bedroom ocean view through points.

So that brings me back to the question, does availability and actually being able to take these vacations factor into the price of the Trust points? I think it does. I would rather have 6 days than no days. And I would gladly pay for that too.

As for the high point value places like Hawaii....I may not have enough points to go during Christmas, but I do have enough to go during May. And if I really wanted/needed Christmas, I could bank and borrow, or even rent the additional points needed to go. I like that. In the past, no matter how many weeks I gave to Interval, it didn't magically make Hawaii during Christmas appear.

And it's not to say that I think the required points and the Maintenance for those points is worth that particular trip, but I'm just trying to use it as another example of why I liked the access to the unsold weeks versus the limited inventory through Interval and being at the mercy of those that owned the week I want and hoping to God that I was the lucky one to get that week over the competition.

In my opinion, my purchase price was less than when I bought my weeks, and it gives me access to more inventory, less competition from non-marriott owners who get successful exchanges (as a previous poster bragged about) and even $820 for my maintenance fee is cheaper than my other ones that are around $1000 for one and $1400 for the other.

Marco Island was $50-65K and $80-100K for platinum 3bedrooms... if I remember correctly for a week when I went there. My stay this year in July for a 2 bed ocean view is 1750. Yes I am sacrificing a day but that means for my $18,400 purchase I am being able to go and still have a few points left over.

All of you are only focusing on the high point values for full weeks during prime season, that were relatively difficult to get into on an exchange, although not impossible, but not easy either. I'm curious as to why none of you are talking about the places that were easy to exchange in and what the points can get you at those places?

Now maintenance fee question, is it too expensive for the Trust points? My Lakeshore nets me (with the skim) at 4200. It's a lock off....so Interval can get me 14 nights maximum. I pay almost $1400 for my Maintenance....so each night using my lock off means that I'm actually paying $100 a night.

Now just taking my Lakeshore points, I wanted to show you what I can get.

Streamside Vail 2 bedroom for a ski trip Jan 5th for 5days/ 4 nights, point cost 600. Would want to go more, but my kids need to go back to school.

Hilton Head Harbor Point (not my favorite Hilton Head property, I prefer to be on the beach) 2 Bedroom for my Husband's golf trip from March 23th 2013 during the golf Classics (which is why he picked this resort...apparently this is close to where that golf things is held) 6 days/ 5 nights cost is 500 points.

July 2013 the family is going to Orlando and we need a 3 bedroom because of my In-Laws people coming with us. We decided to stay at Imperial palms (since it's closer to Disney, can use the pool at the Marriott World Center, and it was cheaper in point costs, and all units have been fully renovated. Going there July 1st to spend the 4th of July as a family, even though I know it will be God awful hot) 6 days/5 nights and the total cost will be 1250 points.

Next is trip is my Hubby and I's Anniversary trip. We have been planning to go to Hawaii for awhile by ourselves but I have a herniated disk and never wanted to make the flight out there. We have decided to break up our flight so we are going to Grande Chateau in Vegas on Aug 22st for 4 days/3 nights in a Studio and the point cost is 750.

Then on August 24th we are flying to Kauai for 7 days/ 6 nights staying in an Ocean View Parlor for 1100 points. It was my choice to stay in a Parlor as it will just be the two of us and did not want any room that had anything resembling a kitchen! already told the hubby that I am NOT cooking on our anniversary!!! and I don't want to even have the option in case he tries to trick me into it LOL)

In conclusion: total points for all of next year's travel plans is 4200, the exact amount my Lakeshore Reserve week gives me. Total number of nights 23. Maintenance fee divided by 23 nights is $56.53 per night.

My other week I will turn into MRP for those hotel/air packages that I like and still haven't touched the 2000 Trust points I purchased. I may use some for Travel Insurance, maybe the hubby will purchase the golf package option in Hilton head for his trip. I think it's 800 points for 12 Rounds on selected courses, not including cart fees. But we did the math on it and at $.41c maintenance for 800 points, that breaks down to $328. Divide that by the 12 rounds and it's something like $27.34 a round. Not bad according to my hubby. I'm not a golfer, so whatever :)

For those who are strongly feel that I got ripped off and that the point system is terrible, help me do better. Because any way I cut it, I couldn't see how Interval could match what I just did using only my Lakeshore week?

I will acknowledge that I am not staying a full week in any of those places and am checking in on Sunday. I try to avoid Friday and Saturday nights as they require more points, except for Vegas and Hawaii where it is unavoidable for my particular trip. (Anniversary is August 26th)

I also realize that I am not staying at the newest properties, but find all Marriott's to be wonderful and certainly better than a regular hotel room. I am staying During the Fourth of July and Golf Classics which are high times, and in 2 and 3 bedroom condos. I also am using a Studio and an Ocean View Parlor in Hawaii, which is just fine for me and my Husband. I could have gotten a studio and Garden view for not many more points, but I would rather have an ocean view than a kitchenette that may give my wonderful husband any evil ideas.....

I like being able to tweak certain things like check in days, seasons, views, sizes, and number of days, and even which resorts to use, in order to maximize what I can get relative to my annual Maintenance fee.

All of you are stuck on the idea that in the old system no matter where you went you always got 8 days/ 7 nights (as long as it was available for an exchange that is) And you all focus on those high locations, and high peak seasons that require a God awful amount of points to get. My argument is more about what was possible and what was actually probable. We all believed the sales rep when they said that we could go anywhere we wanted, that Interval traded blindly and it would be easy....then we realized that wasn't actually the case and that we needed to wise up. So then some of us figured out that to beat the system, we needed to be on top of this like a second job...marking the date on calendars for when Marriott released inventory, and setting alarm clocks at 9 in the morning to ensure that we were the first call received. That's what we did to try to beat the system.

But none of you are looking at the other side of the coin, which is what can you get if you aren't going to Hawaii in a 2 Bedroom Ocean Front during Christmas every year? (that costs 8000 points for the week)?

I love playing with the calendar calculator on the Marriott website and seeing what I can get. I don't mind staying 6 days instead of 7, especially if that means I can have enough points left over to take another 6 day/5 night vacation later on. I don't always need a 2 bedroom if it's just me and my Husband. I don't always like to travel during the holidays. I don't mind checking in on Sundays instead of Fridays or Saturdays. This system works for me. I have more options to play with to see how much I can get. And unless they change the calendar on us, a week is always going to be a week, and those of you who don't have a lock out, that means that each vacation costs you around $1000 (Maintenance Fee) or $143/night.

As for the Resale comments....none of us bought this thinking we were going to make money on it and resale it. We all know we can't sell our timeshares for a whole lot anyway (that's why resales saved us 50% because the original owner took that hit) So there is a transfer deed fee (each deed is 250 points, so in my case I have 8 deeds for my 2000 Trust points) and there is a "reeducation fee" also per deed, not per point.

The ability to sell these points are not impossible....just isn't in the best interest for the original purchaser because they are going to take a loss, but really...someone please explain to me...how is that new? How is that different from before when buying from the developer versus resale? How is the idea that certain benefits such as MRP which never transferred different that the idea that certain benefits on Trust points don't transfer?

Timeshare has never been a great resale for the original purchaser...so I'm confused as to why all of you are acting like this is something new? I agree that it's not wonderful, and I can see Marriott's point of view making buying from them more appealing that from someone else. NEWS FLASH: they are a business guys. Kinda means their goal is to be profitable. I am astonished how offended some of you are about that. Even with the transfer fees and such, compared to some of the resale weeks available, mathematically I don't see what all the fuss is about. Some personal shells out $40K for a week in Hawaii then sells it for $5K (recent ebay winning week)....$30K loss (let's not include Maintenance fees and just assume their annual usage of the timeshare makes it a wash, versus the amount they would have paid in rent for those same vacations). Frappia....let's say you pay the transfer fees, for $22,000 and you are selling it for $11,000...that means you are out $9K. Sounds like a better loss than the Hawaii owner.....

I really feel that the value of the Maintenance is going to be what you get out of the vacations. And that is up to you. You can blow 8000 points for a week in Hawaii during Christmas with the best view in the house.....Or you can do what I did and stretch them, with a give and take here and there...but come out ahead in the long run.

I don't think the resale profit/loss is any different than before.

I don't even think the prices are outrages since I will happily trade the skim for availability. What's one or two nights sacrifice compared to Interval saying I can't go period because it's not available?

So please, just so that I can understand apples to apples...the points it cost buy those Premium locations during Peak season from the developer, and the cost to buy the points necessary to go to those places, is it really that much different, if say, you bought that week right before the points system launched? Be aware that the price per point over 2500 is $9.50....so Marco Island Platinum Plus (Christmas Week) 2 bedroom was $85,000. For a garden view during that week it costs 5350 points. If I were to buy 5500 points at $9.50 it would cost me $52,250. These figures I got directly from their corporate headquarters located on Westwood Blvd in Orlando Florida.

According to the Orange County Courthouse as of 9/29/2011 there are 445,268 real property interest conveyed into the Trust From Crystal Shores contributed 9,277,500 Trust points. The real property interest these points came from were the number of weeks that had not been sold, and therefore unavailable to legacy owner through an exchange in Interval (remember, someone needs to buy the week and then decide to deposit their week into Interval so another person who wasn't willing to drop that kind of money to own that week, could use it, prevailing we were the lucky ones to get it, that is). This is a sore spot for me, only because I tried so hard to get into this place for two years before this whole points thing came out.

If the number of weeks seems unbelievable, start doing basic math...each room can be split into 52 weeks. So imagine how many rooms there are at every Marriott Resort combined, multiply by 52. I then wonder how many people were handing Marriott $50-$100K for a week back in 2008/2009 when the economy crashed. My guess, is that there wasn't a whole lot of them and that Marco Island wasn't selling a whole lot of weeks. If that assumption is correct, then it makes sense why it's hard to get an exchange through Interval into that place....there weren't a whole lot of people buying it to exchange with.

Another reason why I purchased Trust points....I wanted to tap into that unsold inventory. The stuff that I could see for rent on Marriott.com but heard Interval tell me it was unavailable since no Marco Island owner had deposited their week with them yet. I was welcome to wait for it or to call back another time though.

Sure Marriott could have dumped the unsold inventory into Interval for all of us (and non-marriott owners) to scoop up for a measly exchange fee....or they could let it go empty seeing as how no one owned it yet. Or they could rent it out since they don't have anyone to pawn off the Maintenance fee to and the Interval exchange fee isn't enough to cover it, so....yup...they rented it. I, for years saw that resort available for rent, but for years could never get an exchange.

I'm going this July checking in on the 17th, 2 bedroom ocean view. I was on the phone for 15min and booked it immediately. So if the point system is pricey....I'm willing to pay just for the damn convenience of the thing. Of not waiting. Of not dealing with Interval. Of actually getting a room, FINALLY. I'd be willing to pay for all of that and not even get more vacation time! (2000 points=more time on top of the two weeks I own...granted that time could be anything from 5 full weeks in Hilton Head beach in the winter to 3 days in a 2bed Aruba Platinum time, my choice how I want to spend them)

I'm one of those people that can attach a monetary value to not deal with headaches and frustrations, or setting alarm clocks at exactly 12 months out at 9 in the morning.

And please understand I am not one of those people where exchanges have always failed me. I have been on some amazing vacations on an exchange through Interval and will probably continue to use them if the higher cost point weeks are available in Interval before looking at getting that vacation through points. My personal issue is that exchanges haven't always been a success and/or the nervous wait to see if something comes through before booking airplane tickets or dealing with those tickets being more expensive or unavailable was really difficult to deal with. I'm not saying that these issues will all of the sudden disappear....but so far....haven't had to go through them. I'm really hoping it stays this way. Worst case, if it doesn't....well, at least I'm prepared since i had to deal with it before. I'll enjoy the respite for as long as it exists.

IFRAPPIA: Please look up what a Land Trust (or even personal Trust like the ones you can set up for your own Family) entails and therefore have a better understanding of what you own. You keep saying you own nothing, but that isn't true. So for your own peace of mind, research a little and find out what it means to own a interest in a Trust and the properties that are in that Trust. There is a difference between ownership and usage. For instance, you own a deed to whatever resort you purchased, but what you can use is 8 days/ 7 nights at a resort you don't own. The time period is your useage. Just like when you exchange your week for Marriott Reward Points. You don't own the MRP, but you use them. And accept that the combo packages aren't as good as they used to be 20 years ago because the cost of those plane tickets and hotels are not what they used to be 20 years ago either. Do you really think the airline companies and hotel owner lets you stay for free just because they accept your MRP? No, they bill Marriott because they still want to get paid for their services. That bill I'm sure has increased along with inflation, and therefore, the number of MRP it costs for those trips should naturally also increase.

Now, you actually OWN something...it's a small portion of whatever is registered into the TRUST: a little bit of all of those Resorts...kinda like a Mutual Fund versus Stock. You can buy just Apple stock and pay $565 per share and hope that the new Ipads don't start killing people and make the stock worthless....or you can buy into a Mutual fund for $30 a share which has Apple in it, but also has other companies, such as Microsoft, so if in case the Ipads do start blowing up, the Mutual fund will of course be affected, but not as bad as loosing everything because the other companies in the Mutual fund work like a protection. That's why they say Mutual funds are a lower risk investment versus putting all your eggs in one basket. Think of buying a week at Lakeshore as putting all my vacation eggs in one basket (ignore the exchange for a second, we are strictly speaking about the deed and ownership) and then I could buy a week at Crystal Shores, a week in Hawaii, and one in Vegas....not only would I shell out over $150,000 easy, I would have 4 deeds and 28 days usage (also ignore lock outs as the deed is for a 2 or 3 bedroom, not 2 deeds, one being a studio and the other a 1 bedroom)

Now I can buy into the Trust and spread my vacation eggs around, so to speak....The Trust is currently priced(Marriott's Mutual Fund, which has all the properties I just mentioned and all the other 37 resorts as well) at $11.16 a point. The 2000 or 2500 points (8 or 10 shares of the Trust) is the amount of time you can use, just like how 8 days 7 nights is the amount of time you can use from the resorts that you purchased. When we bought a week at a resort, we were buying 1 share out of 52 shares per room at that particular location/size/season. Now you have a small ownership of all the properties/sizes/seasons in the Trust....but your 2000 or 2500 points, represent the time you can use, and is not limited to a calendar week. Some places you won't get a full week, but other places you will. And if you are like me, I'm okay staying 6 days and when I check in on Sunday, all the points required for that week are almost 50% off. So you have to make your own personal decision if staying that extra day or two is worth more than going on a second or third trip doing the same 50% off trick. My decisions are driven by my Maintenance cost and how many nights I get for them. Your decisions may be driven by other things. To each their own.

I already gave you the rental site, if you really won't personally use the Trust points, just rent them out. Many people are willing to pay for them. At least this way you don't have to worry about paying the Maintenance fee on something you aren't using. Most people are charging anywhere from $.50 per point for large amounts and $.70 per point for smaller amounts based on their needs, and what you want to negotiate for. But even $.50/per point is a great deal since $.41 is the break even for Maintenance fees on the Trust points. And keep in mind, as I mentioned before, since you love MRP so much, just convert half of your Trust points into MRP by 3/31st every year. Each Trust point will give you 32 MRP. If you are premiere then you can convert 65% of the Trust points you purchased each year into MRP....then just rent the rest of the Trust points on-line to other Marriott owners. And besides, just because the person you were planning to sell the points to backed out, doesn't mean the next person will. Especially since you are aware of the transfer fees and are willing to pay for them.

I have really started to hate checking this tread because I feel that it is bringing out the nasty in all of us. We are starting to sound like bickering children, when really, I just want to add a little bit of positivity to things. Maybe a different perspective. We all know nothing is perfect and this new program has flaws, but we also know that nothing is all horrible, or else we never would have purchased timeshare to begin with. We all accept our maintenance fees, albeit begrudgingly, but I have to admit, the few times I've stayed at a non-marriott, it wasn't the same. I paid the extra money to own a name brand timeshare even though there were cheaper out there, but I prefer quality and am willing to pay more for it. Just like how I am willing to pay for convenience. And to those that say just rent someone else's timeshare and save yourself the upfront expense and obligation and you can rent it cheaper than the maintenance fee, think about it like this....someone, somewhere, had to buy the timeshare first, for it to exist on the resale market. Someone, somewhere is taking a hit on the money they paid out, and then they get screwed by not even being able to cover the cost of their maintenance fee. Hell, if it's really about saving money, go stay at a Holiday Inn, and not leach off of those that paid a lot of money for what they bought. And those of you who are willing to sell your timeshare, if resales are so great to own, why are you getting rid of yours? Most people, if it's not a health thing, get rid of it because they aren't being able to get the exchanges when they want. It's not because they decided to stare at their walls all day until they die. Or because they don't want to pay for their Maintenance fees anymore, knowing full well that as soon as they sell their timeshare, their next vacation will be a choice of paying $150/night in a nice hotel (2beds, bathroom) which is an average maintenance fee ($1050 plus tax) or rent from a timeshare owner and pay their maintenance fee. I know I sound like a shill, but it's because I really believe in that logic. If I wanted a cheap room, I could have rented a super 8 for the rest of my life. But there was a reason we all purchased timeshare...versus staying in inexpensive hotel rooms. I like my space, I like my accommodations, I like staying at a resort. Nothing wrong with the hotels I've stayed at though.

Okay I am done sounding like a shill, and do apologize to any of you are are personally offended by my desire to look on the bright side and trying to share that side. I know that the complaints are really just the intention to warn others because your personal opinion is that it's a ripoff, and it's not because you want to insult people. Please take my efforts as the same. My personal opinion is that it's not a ripoff, and that my intention is not to sell others, but more because I'd like to have a voice on this forum that addresses the positive aspects of the program.

And again, just for personal curiosity, for those that think the new products is a ripoff due to price alone, at what price would you feel the product should be sold at to where it's not a ripoff? Comparing it not to resales, which did not come with full Developer perks, but compared to the price of weeks that were purchased from Marriott directly. And I do not want another debate to stem from my question about how developer purchased weeks were a ripoff too. I just want an apples to apples comparison for those of us that felt our developer week price was worth it's value but that the price for the points is not. Without the argument of exchanging to Hawaii for a week for a Branson Bronze week. Because I will also shoot back that a Branson Bronze week could never get 4 Bronze season Hilton Head 2 Bedroom units for 4 weeks and now they can.....

i am glad destination points is working well for you. thank you for sharing all your research and tips. for ME it is useless. i have never and would never stay in a resort and i've owned for over 20 years. and the vacations require so many points that you can buy the exact same trip for CASH for less than the maintenance fees for the points required. you MUST use the points or lose them. that is the most shocking thing to me I think. then that means that i do NOT own anything. if i owned it, they could not just take it back from me for no compensation.

i am a absolutely CERTAIN that if they had told me how the program works, I would NOT have purchased points. i feel that i am a victim of FRAUD.

to answer one of your main questions, at what price do i think points are worth it. i can honestly say that if i was given them free, i would not want them.

Well g333, if you are done patting yourself on the back, and rightfully so may I say, understand this.

With the exception of Marco Island, which I have no desire to visit, I have been to every other Marriott location you have mentioned and others you didn't such as Boston Custom House and Newport Coast by trading my Winter Palm Desert efficiency unit. In most cases for a two bedroom unit. In 20 years, I never had a problem with Intervals because of the research I did. I would assume that may very well change. Except I now understand that after all the reasons Marriott gave in their points presentation to eliminate II, they are now including a LIFETIME membership.

As I have said before, I own 2 Platinum Maui weeks, which yes include Christmas and the 4th of July. Now tell me why I would ever want to give one of them up when there are no unsold units in your trust so I can get to say Marco Island?

My decision not to convert rested solely on the fact that the amount of points they wanted to give me was FAR LESS than the amount they would get from others like you for what I not them OWNED. I also bought units only in the exact places I wanted to vacation. Simply made no sense.

As for why I felt what they are doing is a ripoff is solely based on the amount they charge for points being roughly three times higher than the resale value of a comparable point location. My example being that the week I own in Palm Desert will cost you 3750 points that cost $41,000. Now that unit cost me $16,500 in 1994 and although they once sold for a high of $31,000, I probably would net less than $10,000 if I ever wanted to sell. Which I don't!

As for Maui, you don't even want to know the difference, I will tell you that ever since the points program started Marriott has been calling me trying to get those units back. Their offer, what I paid for them! Which is WAY less than what it would cost you for points IF THEY EVEN HAD ONE TO GIVE YOU. It once was told to me, that for each 5000 request for that location only one would get it and that person would most certainly be a Marriott owner. Sadly those odds have not changed much.

I spent a career prosecuting people for Tax Fraud. Some for far less that a comparable scheme than this. Yes it's a business and as we say, Business is GOOD!

I am happy that you are happy. It sounds that you have properly done you due diligence and are satisfied with the cost. I will however bet you were NOT given all that fine information in your one hour presentation. There in lies the problem!

As for Maui, you don't even want to know the difference, I will tell you that ever since the points program started Marriott has been calling me trying to get those units back. Their offer, what I paid for them! Which is WAY less than what it would cost you for points IF THEY EVEN HAD ONE TO GIVE YOU. It once was told to me, that for each 5000 request for that location only one would get it and that person would most certainly be a Marriott owner. Sadly those odds have not changed much.

Bobp223...we would be very interested in selling our Maui legacy units (2BR OF lockoff, 2 weeks every yr) back to Mariott! Do you remember who you talked to?

Mc, from the information I was told, a resale department was started for Maui this year and they were offering Pre-construction prices for buybacks. Since I wasn't interested, I went no further.

Recently a friend stayed there and attended a presentation where he was told that original units in the Lahaina Tower were all sold out and thus were very limited to points owners. He was also told of a proposed buyback plan for those units.

I would suggest calling their resale department.

bobp223 wrote:

Mc, from the information I was told, a resale department was started for Maui this year and they were offering Pre-construction prices for buybacks. Since I wasn't interested, I went no further.

Recently a friend stayed there and attended a presentation where he was told that original units in the Lahaina Tower were all sold out and thus were very limited to points owners. He was also told of a proposed buyback plan for those units.

I would suggest calling their resale department.

bobp223: Thanks for the info! We were in Maui for most of March but did not attend the sales presentation as we are not interested in the points program. We own in the original Molokai/Lanai towers. Will check this out further!

g333 a big "Thank You" I appreciate the effort you have put in to present how you have been able to use all of the vacation club options. I am amazed at the breadth of your discussion and all that you have covered. It appears that you are achieving full value, and then some, and have certainly made the effort.

We have a large family, 24 including grand children, and have enjoyed every experience using our vacation club interests. We view our interests as a "vacation 401k" and are glad for what we have acquired, including Dest. Pts.

I FINALLY GOT TO THE END OF G333S AND BELIEVE SHE'S VERY HAPPY WITH THE NEW POINT PROGRAM. READING BETWEEN THE LINES SHE OBVIOUSLY IS WELL OFF AND HAS TIME TO GO TO ALL THESE PLACES A FEW DAYS AT A TIME. I THINK THIS IS GREAT FOR HER AND HER HUSBAND AND I CERTAINLY FEEL THEY HAVE EARNED THAT POSITION OVER THE YEARS. HOWEVER, SHE REPRESENTS A SMALL PERCENTAGE OF THE MARRIOTT OWNERS . MOST OF US ARE WORKING PEOPLE AND CAN'T TAKE OFF ANYTIME AND ARE LUCKY TO HAVE A 7 DAY PERIOD THAT AS A FAMILY, WE CAN TAKE ADVANTAGE ONCE A YEAR.

I THINK THE RIPOFF PHRASE COMES FROM THE IDEA OF WHAT MARRIOTT WANTS TO BUY BACK TIMESHARES FOR AND THEN RESELL THEM UNDER THE POINT PRORAM FOR 3-4 TIMES THAT PRICE, AND THAT IS A RIPOFF. BECAUSE OF THEIR BUYBACK POLICY, THEY HAVE CONTROLED THE MARKET PRICE OF RESALES. THE AVERAGE BUYER FEELS, WHY SHOULD THEY OFFER $25,00O FOR A ARUBA TIMESHARE, WHEN MARRIOTT IS ONLY GOING TO PAY THE OWNER $14,000. MARRIOTT TRIES TO CONVINCE THEM THAT SINCE THEY CAN'T TAKE PART IN ANY EXCHANGE PROGRAM WITH MARRIOTT, THAT BUYING FROM AN OWNER IS TARNISHED AND DOESN'T HAVE ALL THE ADVANTAGES THAT THEY WOULD HAVE BUYING FROM MARRIOTT AND PAYING $46,000 IN POINTS. I HAVEN'T USED MARRIOTT TO TRADE FOR MY 5 TIMESHARES IN OVER 6 YEARS AND DON'T INTEND TO IN THE FUTURE. I TELL PEOPLE TO SET THEIR VACATION TIMES 12-13 MONTHS AHEAD AT PEAK VACATION TIMES, AND IF YOU CAN'T MAKE USE OF THOSE TIMES, YOU CAN RENT OR TRADE FOR MOST ANYWHERE YOU WANT TO GO.

COUNTRY CLUBS ACROSS THE U.S. HAVE HAD SIMILAR PROBLEMS IN THE PAST HANDLING THE BUYBACK OF MEMBERSHIPS BECAUSE OF DEATHS, TRANSFERS,ECT. MANY OF THEM SET UP WHAT I THINK IS A FAIR PROGRAM BY GUARANTEEING THE MEMBER A 80% BUYBACK UP TO THE ORIGINAL PRICE OF $50,000, BASED ON WHAT THAT MEMBERSHIP PRICE IS CURRENTLY SELLING FOR. EXAMPLE: MEMBER PAYS $50,000 TO JOIN AND FIVE YEARS LATER DIES OR IS TRANSFERRED. THE CURRENT PRICE AT THE TIME IS $60,000, SO THE BUYBACK IS 80% OF $60,000 OR $48,000.IF THE CURRENT PRICE IS $80,000, THE MEMBER RECEIVES $50,000, HIS ORIGINAL MEMBERSHIP COST.

USING THAT EXAMPLE, MARRIOTT COULD STILL PURCHASE BACK TIMESHARES AT ROCKBOTTOM PRICES FROM THE EARLY OWNERS WHO WOULD BE GETTING BACK THEIR ORIGINAL INVESTMENT, BUT IT WOULD GIVE MARRIOTT OWNERS WHO PAID MUCH HIGHER PRICES A CHANCE TO RECOUP A BETTER RETURN ON THEIR ORIGINAL COST. AND YES IT WOULD BE BASED ON THE PRESENT PURCHASE VALUE UNDER THE POINT SYSTEM. EVEN BUYING BACK TIMESHARES IN ARUBA THAT SOLD FOR $33,000 FIVE YEARS AGO, WOULD GIVE MARRIOTT A PROFIT OF $13,000 FOR EACH NEW POINT SALE. A PROGRAM LIKE THAT WOULD CREATE QUITE A STIR IN THE TIMESHARE BUSINESS AND WOULD STOP ALL THE NEGATIVE TALK ABOUT TIMESHARE PROGRAMS AND REALLY PUT MARRIOTT IN THE HEAD OF THE CLASS FOREVER.

J4216

Hey, listen! If you are willing to sell them back to Marriott, would you be willing to sell them to one of us for the same price Marriott would offer you?

If you really believe this is out-and-out fraud, why hasn't there been a class-action suit by now?

KATHRYN--THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT I HAVE DONE. I BOUGHT MY 4TH ARUBA CONDO FROM A MARRIOTT OWNER. HE GOT MORE THAN MARRIOTT WANTED TO GIVE HIM AND I BOUGHT IT FOR $16,000 LESS THAN I BOUGHT MY OTHER THREE. THAT'S WHY I'M ENCOURAGING OWNERS WHO WANT TO SELL FOR SOME REASON, TO SELL IN THE OPEN MARKET. SCREW MARRIOTT.

J4216

ifrappia -

Have you thought about placing your timeshare interests (owned weeks and Dest Pts) in a trust and then adding the name of family members as beneficiaries to the trust. You may then be able to transfer your interests, with full rights, more easily and without transfer fees, loss of value, etc.

Bob could probably advise on this.

Dennis

I posted a longer thread earlier, and it appears to have been erased, or lost somewhere! From my research (check it out yourself) it seems that Marriott has been working hand-in-hand with Diamond Resorts International. Check out the problems we have as owners of DRI. We were happy under Sunterra, but DRI is a company that DOES have a class-action suit against it (in Hawaii) and has lost in a suit in San Marteen. BEWARE! And, I'll be watching to see if this is erased again.

My inquiry is a bit different.

Background:My wife and I own a Hilton timeshare and generally like Hilton but Hilton does not have any vacation club properties in the Caribbean as of yet. We've struggled finding nice places in the Caribbean though RCI. Sometimes good, sometimes not. Its hard to plan a year out as we still work. We are nearing retirement but still have 5-10 years to go. We like inviting family or friends with us. We were intigued by Marriott as they have some nice facilities in Aruba, St. Kitts and St. Thomas. Due to the fact that we like bringing folks with us, we are considering a 6500 point program at the Premier level. Very costly but we figure we could get some good use out of this particularly after we retire. Obviously we don't have any issues with 'old' program vs. 'new' program and a lot of this blog is focused on that issue.

Question:

How hard is it to book, particularly in the Caribbean or Hawaii in the real world? We understand the marketing bluster but if any of you would kindly share your experience at securing places in the Marriott family at those locations. Hard to plan 13 months out for us and as we are from the north, obviously we want to book in winter or early spring. Appreciate your candor. Thank you.

The true test - I suggest that you ask a sales rep to demonstrate that they can get various specific reservations (locations and dates) for you using Dest points as of right now. If they won't do it for you or if you don't want to ask, please indicate what you would like on this forum and I will do the search for you. It can be done online and is very easy.

My experience is that I have had no difficulty getting exactly what I want using Dest. Pts., even with short notice.

Dennis

Thank you Dennis. I will try your suggestion first and make the rep do a little work. Appreciate the feedback

Dennis, are you serious? Are you telling him to ask a sales rep? That is like asking a used car salesman if a car on his lot is a good one. A sales rep is going to always find reservations for a potential buyer. That's a simple conflict of interest for them.

Edd, you need to ask other Marriott owners. I have read lots of comments from Marriott owners and their experience with the Destination points program. Most of the comments are good as it pertains to getting what they want as far as reservations. However, the challenge is when there are certain properties that are sold out and people usually use their week like one in Maui, it can be very difficult to get into. However, people are finding that using Marriott's new points system is now making it easier and faster to get what they want instead of going through II. Please note that you will still be able to use Interval International for non Marriott exchanges. I would go to tug2.net and go to the Marriott forum and read the plethora of information that people have written about using their points to reserve weeks. You will find mostly positive.

My experience with my sales reps has been better and I have used them routinely to get some great reservations and even trades thru Interval. This is a fair question for them.

However, to allay the fears of others, I took 5 minutes and did the search on the website. I did two quick searches for Dest Pts reservations. I looked for a 7 day reservation window surrounding about the 15th of the month for Maui - Ocean View and Garden/Mtn View.

Maui Ocean Club, "Ocean View", 2 bedroom, 7 nights, 6 guests: 2012 - Not available in Jul. Available in Aug, Sep, Oct, Nov, & Dec. 2013 - Not available in Jan, Feb, Mar, Apr, May

Same as above but "Garden/Mtn View": 2012 - Not available in Jul, Aug, Dec. Available in Sep, Oct, Nov. 2013 - Not available in Jan, Feb, Mar. Available in Apr, May.

'Hope this helps.

If you can resolve a question by a simple test, you needn't worry about what "non-Dest Pts" participants are writing in these forums.

I must admit Dennis that you going to supposedly search is very suspect to me. I too am very enthusiast about my timeshares. However, I believe on this type of question many owners of points should comment and NOT a salesperson.