BUYING DEVELOPER vs RESALE (typical scenario)

The most expensive timeshare we ever bought was our first from the developer in a brand new area facing a waterpark (very coveted location) of a very popular gold crown resort in Florida, and we paid 10K for it. I thought 10K was outrageous. We were not educated about resales at the time we bought from the developer.

A few years later when we were ready to sell I advertised it for 5K (half price as I had read that no way would we get the developer purchase price back on a resale). I advertised it on several internet sites with no interest whatsoever. I kept dropping the price and finally got an offer of $2900 which I took and was glad to get it. We lost 7K on our developer bought timeshare, which is typical on the resale market.

We definitely learned a (very expensive) lesson concerning buying developer timeshares. We went on to buy 8 resales (at very good prices) where we liked to go. When we were ready to sell them, we had no problem at all since we bought at such good prices to begin with.

A tough way to learn about developer bought timeshares vs resales.

A resale timeshare is the exact same product as a developer timeshare and costs 1/4 to 1/3 of the developer cost.

jayjay wrote:

The most expensive timeshare we ever bought was our first from the developer in a brand new area facing a waterpark (very coveted location) of a very popular gold crown resort in Florida, and we paid 10K for it. I thought 10K was outrageous. We were not educated about resales at the time we bought from the developer.

A few years later when we were ready to sell I advertised it for 5K (half price as I had read that no way would we get the developer purchase price back on a resale). I advertised it on several internet sites with no interest whatsoever. I kept dropping the price and finally got an offer of $2900 which I took and was glad to get it. We lost 7K on our developer bought timeshare, which is typical on the resale market.

We definitely learned a (very expensive) lesson concerning buying developer timeshares. We went on to buy 8 resales (at very good prices) where we liked to go. When we were ready to sell them, we had no problem at all since we bought at such good prices to begin with.

A tough way to learn about developer bought timeshares vs resales.

A resale timeshare is the exact same product as a developer timeshare and costs 1/4 to 1/3 of the developer cost.

Jayjay I think we all have made that dumb mistake our first time and some a second and third time!

Remember back when many of us bought our first timeshare there wasn't timeshare forums and resales sites to work with!

You were scammed going into buy and scammed trying to sell later with upfront fee companies! You could pay to run ads in papers or put cards on bulletin boards and tell people at work and that was about it.

I mentioned how we sold our PV,Mexico condo back in about 1985 and that was to advertise that rental fee would go toward agreed price if they bought and the family did buy!

They went on tour and loved the place and after hearing the price at the resort called us to start the paperwork well they were still on vacation!

We as owners can try a warn new owners but some people can not be warned and will still make the same mistake over and over!

The way I see it is there are two problems here and one is new owners probably never heard of these timeshare forums before buying! Lets face it that most of us were on vacation when a sales rep walked up to us and offered dinner for four or free boat ride or something. Laying around the pool you decide for 30 minutes it might be fun and get free dinners!

Vacation family do not understand there over matched and will probably buy a timeshare and regret it before their plane hits the runway!

One of the good points(for resort) and made clear by the sales person is the resort is brand new and there will be no resales for long time and your getting in at the right time because prices will be going up! This one works great and most of us have fallen for it! Then they hit you with and we will handle the loan for you!

My statement to all new buyers and I feel this is the most important statement I can make! Do not take credit cards or check book with you to their tours and have cramp in your writing hand!

PHIL

DITTO, DITTO, DITTO (Timeshare salespeople are very good at what they do).

phill12 wrote:

Do not take credit cards or check book with you to their tours and have cramp in your writing hand! PHIL

Boy do I agree with the comments posted here.

Although I am very happy with the weeks we purchased at a Marriott resort in Hilton Head, SC (because we like the area and the resort, and we like trading into other Marriotts), I bought two weeks pre construction from the developer, and later a third week also from the developer.

Now I realize I could have the exact same thing, and have saved a bunch of money by waiting and looking for resale weeks. Yes, I wouldn't have the huge bunch of Marriott points to use (I got about 500,000 points buying the first two weeks), but we haven't yet taken the 'big trip' to use them at Marriott hotels and on airline tickets.

So yes, I agree, look for resales at places you like, and hopefully places that will be attractive to others if you want to either exchange your week or rent it out on Redweek!

Go to the sales presentation if you think the free dinners or drinks or golf or whatever they're offering are worth a few precious hours of your time, but go knowing that you will not buy. And realize up front that it will be very, very hard to say no thanks and walk away from that excellent saleswoman or salesman!

For these presentations, they require that for couples BOTH parties attend. Then all you need is a designated driver who will always say no.*

Works for us.

p.s. Anyone see the funny divorce negotiations* on "Starter Wife" recently?

I just wanted to mention something about the Marriott point program. We too bought from the developer and into the Marriott system of points. At this point we can't say we regret that. The prices were about 1/2 to 2/3 less than what they are charging now. We have gotten some nice airfare rewards from the points. However, recently the reward levels have gone SKY high. It takes so many points to get air or any other reward it has become a long term reward program. We used to be able to get a decent reward in about 1 to 2 years for 3 of us. In other words even if you work the Marriott points program to the max, credit cards, hotel stays, turning in a week and so on, it will take several years to earn enough points to get a trip for the whole family. (depending on the size of the family if it is more than two). That is the other fallacy of the points program, all the rewards are based on two people traveling. Don't get me wrong, the Marriott reward point system is good but I wouldn't say great. One big advantage Marriott has is that the points never expire, unlike Starwoods (they expire in 6 years). Is it worth? I don't know at this time. When we bought ours the points bought us 3 round trip 1st class tickets from NY to Hawaii and a 2 week car rental. Those were probably worth the difference in price between resale and developer. But I don't think we would get that now with the value of the points. We love our Marriott properties but are, like many others I have read about on here, getting frustrated with the exchange availability at different locations. We sometimes do the tours still and get a point injection. But for us they are going to have to jump up how many points are offered for us to give up vacation time any more. At this time with the points so devalued, the weeks from the developers so high, the fact that the developer did not increase point value to match price, we wouldn't ever buy from a developer again. One other thing, we were told that the point system would follow the property if it was inherited by our children. Recently we check because we were thinking about putting them on the deed to make it easier later and we were told "no" that is not true. The points were only to go to the original owners. We are going to check into that a LOT more. Seems that is something very fishy there.

Well that is enough from me.

PS: where is divorce negotiations on Starter Wife?

jayjay wrote:

The most expensive timeshare we ever bought was our first from the developer in a brand new area facing a waterpark (very coveted location) of a very popular gold crown resort in Florida, and we paid 10K for it. I thought 10K was outrageous. We were not educated about resales at the time we bought from the developer.

A few years later when we were ready to sell I advertised it for 5K (half price as I had read that no way would we get the developer purchase price back on a resale). I advertised it on several internet sites with no interest whatsoever. I kept dropping the price and finally got an offer of $2900 which I took and was glad to get it. We lost 7K on our developer bought timeshare, which is typical on the resale market.

We definitely learned a (very expensive) lesson concerning buying developer timeshares. We went on to buy 8 resales (at very good prices) where we liked to go. When we were ready to sell them, we had no problem at all since we bought at such good prices to begin with.

A tough way to learn about developer bought timeshares vs resales.

A resale timeshare is the exact same product as a developer timeshare and costs 1/4 to 1/3 of the developer cost.

You seem to know quite a bit about timeshare resales and I want your honest opinion on buying resale. What is the catch or there isn't one? What are the risks involved? You mentioned that you've bought resale 8 times already - could you outline the procedure that you went through. We're looking at the Manhattan Club and there's one posted for $5,500. What do you think are the red flags that we should look for? Does a floating week mean that it will be difficult for us to rent it out should we decide to do so? We live in Canada and we don't think we'd like to go to NYC every year. Thanks in advance for any advice that you can send our way.

sylviaa24 wrote:

You seem to know quite a bit about timeshare resales and I want your honest opinion on buying resale. What is the catch or there isn't one? What are the risks involved?

There's no catch. A resale is the exact same product as buying from the developer except for the expensive extra incentives that buying from some developers such as Marriott offerss you such as extra points or whatever incentives they give you to buy from them and not resale.

Quote:

You mentioned that you've bought resale 8 times already - could you outline the procedure that you went through.

First, I perused resale sites such as Redweek for areas where we were looking to buy at a reasonable price. I then contacted the owner by email to let them know I was interested. When we came to an agreement I then contacted www.timesharetransfer.com to handle the closing.

The owner then sends a copy of their deed to the closing company and they then handle all of the paperwork. You send a cashiers check for the amount of the timeshare to the closing company to be held in escrow until the transaction is complete.

Quote:

We're looking at the Manhattan Club and there's one posted for $5,500. What do you think are the red flags that we should look for?

I see no red flags. That's a great price for a Manhattan Club week. Just be sure to go through a reputable closing company.

Quote:

Does a floating week mean that it will be difficult for us to rent it out should we decide to do so?

Not necessarily. Choose a week with the resort then advertise it for rent. However, if you know you'll be renting some years you should choose your week far in advance to get the one you want to rent.

Quote:

We live in Canada and we don't think we'd like to go to NYC every year. Thanks in advance for any advice that you can send our way.

That shouldn't be a problem since you can rent the years you don't go. Are you thinking of joining an exchange company such as RCI or II?

About MARRIOTT POINTS

Everyone who uses Marriott (Travel Reward Points) or obtains them via a T/S ourchase or any other reward system needs to read the MARRIOT RULES about these non timeshare points.

Read the rules here: (I was going to cut & paste, but there were SO MANY RULES, Redweek's capacity might have been compromised) http://www.marriott.com/rewards/terms/default.mi

A few highlights:

No new points in 2 years, Marriott can cancel your program. (If they want to)

Marriott can stop the points program at any time. They will give the points holder a period to attempt to use them up.

They are NOT transferrable to anyone ( except specific family situations)

They are subject to inflation. ie- more points may be needed for the same purchase , or various units will be upgraded to cost more points.

Value put on the points at the TUG site are approx ones cent (US) each...except for the combo trips.

Until recently, MAR Rewards members were able to buy additional points for one cent each.

MAR points are simply a travel point reward system. No one needs to own a T/S to be a member....and collect points.

Unless there is a sale, one week in a 2 bed 2 bath MVCI unit costs 150,000 points. Marriott will take you week and reward you points from approx 90,000 to 130,000 for the turn in of your week for a fee, and after you pay the maint & taxes for the week...in MVCIs case, usually near $1000 a week. (Don't forget the initial cost of the week).

Hope this helps.

jayjay wrote:

sylviaa24 wrote:

You seem to know quite a bit about timeshare resales and I want your honest opinion on buying resale. What is the catch or there isn't one? What are the risks involved?

There's no catch. A resale is the exact same product as buying from the developer except for the expensive extra incentives that buying from some developers such as Marriott offerss you such as extra points or whatever incentives they give you to buy from them and not resale.

Quote:

You mentioned that you've bought resale 8 times already - could you outline the procedure that you went through.

First, I perused resale sites such as Redweek for areas where we were looking to buy at a reasonable price. I then contacted the owner by email to let them know I was interested. When we came to an agreement I then contacted www.timesharetransfer.com to handle the closing.

The owner then sends a copy of their deed to the closing company and they then handle all of the paperwork. You send a cashiers check for the amount of the timeshare to the closing company to be held in escrow until the transaction is complete.

Quote:

We're looking at the Manhattan Club and there's one posted for $5,500. What do you think are the red flags that we should look for?

I see no red flags. That's a great price for a Manhattan Club week. Just be sure to go through a reputable closing company.

Quote:

Does a floating week mean that it will be difficult for us to rent it out should we decide to do so?

Not necessarily. Choose a week with the resort then advertise it for rent. However, if you know you'll be renting some years you should choose your week far in advance to get the one you want to rent.

Quote:

We live in Canada and we don't think we'd like to go to NYC every year. Thanks in advance for any advice that you can send our way.

That shouldn't be a problem since you can rent the years you don't go. Are you thinking of joining an exchange company such as RCI or II?

Thanks for your help. Yes, we belong to RCI and we own a timeshare in Ontario and have had great success in exchanging to the south of France, Cape Cod, Hawaii and other places. We own a 2-bedroom unit and when we split it to a 1-bedroom and a studio, we get 2 weeks out of it which is great.

Manhattan Club sounds like a good idea. I wonder if any of the owners can share their experiences re: rentals.

A couple of weeks ago, I posted something about certain rights that did not transfer if Fairfield/Wyndom points were purchased Resale. Now I can't find the post, but I had promised to do some better research and get back to you. The following is what I had in mind:

"Membership in the PlusPartners Program is not transferable upon the subsequent sale or transfer of your (Vacation Ownership Interest), whether by private sale or through a resale company, unless the sale or transfer is by will or intestate succession or to an "Immediate Relative."

PlusPartners is NOT the free internal Fairfield timeshare exchange. It is the extended use of points for other purposes such as cruises, rental cars, air, etc.

MD

A couple weeks ago my wife and I bought a timeshare for $15,000 directly from the developer and paid a $1,500 deposit. We were on vacation when approached by the sales rep and urged to attend the presentation and receive a few gifts. We reluctantly signed on and the sales person convinced us to make a purchase of a one red week fee simple share with 2 extra weeks as incentive. This was our first "sucker" purchase of a timeshare. We were told the prices would go higher later, so get in now. Now I find the online listings for resales of comparable units at the same resort/development for about $5,000 to $10,000. I am attempting to determine if we can simply bail out of this purchase with only the loss of our deposit. We have not yet made the first mortgage payment. Would the developer pursue legal action if we backed out of the purchase or would it be happy to keep the deposit and let us escape from the contract we signed? It is too bad I did not search the internet for info on timeshares until after we returned from our vacation, which meant the 5 day recission period was over. -- Stuart

stuart, sorry but you have passed your rescission period of 5 days if you bought 2 weeks ago. If you had decided to rescind within that 5 days, it would have been no problem but now it's too late to back out.

Thousands of people buy from the developer with no clue of a resale market (we bought our first from the developer being not aware of a resale market) so you're definitely not alone. The best thing to do is to stay away from timeshare presentations in the future as the salespeople are very good at what they do. Try to use and enjoy what you have purchased .... that's about the only alternative you have.

sylviaa24 states asks: >> We're looking at the Manhattan Club and there's one posted for $5,500. What do you think are the red flags that we should look for? <<

Are you already aware of the annual maintenance fees associated with Manhattan Club ownership? They are, in a word, exorbitant.

Re: >> Does a floating week mean that it will be difficult for us to rent it out should we decide to do so? <<

Not necessarily, but it DOES certainly mean that you will have to formally reserve a specific week (each and every yearr) BEFORE you even have a week reserved to rent. Also, you should determine in advance whether or not there are any reservation restrictions (sometimes called "blackout periods") during which you may be prohibited from reserving a week under a "float" ownership. I don't know if this is the case at Manhattan Club, but you need to find out for certain for yourself.

jayjay wrote:

stuart, sorry but you have passed your rescission period of 5 days if you bought 2 weeks ago. If you had decided to rescind within that 5 days, it would have been no problem but now it's too late to back out.

Thousands of people buy from the developer with no clue of a resale market (we bought our first from the developer being not aware of a resale market) so you're definitely not alone. The best thing to do is to stay away from timeshare presentations in the future as the salespeople are very good at what they do. Try to use and enjoy what you have purchased .... that's about the only alternative you have.

stuarts37 wrote:

A couple weeks ago my wife and I bought a timeshare for $15,000 directly from the developer and paid a $1,500 deposit. We were on vacation when approached by the sales rep and urged to attend the presentation and receive a few gifts. We reluctantly signed on and the sales person convinced us to make a purchase of a one red week fee simple share with 2 extra weeks as incentive. This was our first "sucker" purchase of a timeshare. We were told the prices would go higher later, so get in now. Now I find the online listings for resales of comparable units at the same resort/development for about $5,000 to $10,000. I am attempting to determine if we can simply bail out of this purchase with only the loss of our deposit. We have not yet made the first mortgage payment. Would the developer pursue legal action if we backed out of the purchase or would it be happy to keep the deposit and let us escape from the contract we signed? It is too bad I did not search the internet for info on timeshares until after we returned from our vacation, which meant the 5 day recission period was over. -- Stuart

I would have to disagree with the broad statement that there is no "catch" to buying resale. It all depends on why you are buying. If you need additional ownership in your existing timeshare group to reach useful VIP benefit levels, for example, you may find that resale purchases do not count. In the Bluegreen group, you can buy through their own resale branch, Pinnacle, and get all benefits, but other resale purchases do not count. Other companies have other rules.

Resellers often do not appear to pass along all the materials, books, and information which they received. Without these, a buyer who is not already familiar with that company may flounder around, not really knowing how to utilize the purchase. We often see questions on Boards like this one that can only be answered accurately by referring to the materials supplied by your own company. The rest is speculation. MD

I agree that you can save 1,000's of dollars by buying resale, and I agree that is the only way to go. However, what happens when no one buys from the developers anymore? What incentive will they have continue building these beautiful, modern accommodations that we can use and trade into? Unfortunately, the timeshare system depens upon someone initially paying the developer's price.

Greg

greg208 asks in part: >> ... what happens when no one buys from the developers anymore? What incentive will they have continue building these beautiful, modern accommodations that we can use and trade into? Unfortunately, the timeshare system depens upon someone initially paying the developer's price.<< ---------------------------------------------------------

Since the advent of timeshare popularity in the U.S. in the 1970's, there has never been a shortage of people to attend developer presentations and then willingly pay developer prices after hearing the razzmatazz and empty promises, and receiving some pocket change, free dinners, baubles, a cruise they can't even later book or some cheap luggage. Unfortunately, the supply of such buyers appears endless, except during hard economic times. Shed no tears for developers --- they almost always thrive.

libby31 wrote:

I just wanted to mention something about the Marriott point program. We too bought from the developer and into the Marriott system of points. At this point we can't say we regret that. The prices were about 1/2 to 2/3 less than what they are charging now. We have gotten some nice airfare rewards from the points. However, recently the reward levels have gone SKY high. It takes so many points to get air or any other reward it has become a long term reward program. We used to be able to get a decent reward in about 1 to 2 years for 3 of us. In other words even if you work the Marriott points program to the max, credit cards, hotel stays, turning in a week and so on, it will take several years to earn enough points to get a trip for the whole family. (depending on the size of the family if it is more than two). That is the other fallacy of the points program, all the rewards are based on two people traveling. Don't get me wrong, the Marriott reward point system is good but I wouldn't say great. One big advantage Marriott has is that the points never expire, unlike Starwoods (they expire in 6 years). Is it worth? I don't know at this time. When we bought ours the points bought us 3 round trip 1st class tickets from NY to Hawaii and a 2 week car rental. Those were probably worth the difference in price between resale and developer. But I don't think we would get that now with the value of the points. We love our Marriott properties but are, like many others I have read about on here, getting frustrated with the exchange availability at different locations. We sometimes do the tours still and get a point injection. But for us they are going to have to jump up how many points are offered for us to give up vacation time any more. At this time with the points so devalued, the weeks from the developers so high, the fact that the developer did not increase point value to match price, we wouldn't ever buy from a developer again. One other thing, we were told that the point system would follow the property if it was inherited by our children. Recently we check because we were thinking about putting them on the deed to make it easier later and we were told "no" that is not true. The points were only to go to the original owners. We are going to check into that a LOT more. Seems that is something very fishy there.

Well that is enough from me.

PS: where is divorce negotiations on Starter Wife?