Ripoff - Marriott Vacation Club Destinations Program - New Point System

I am glad that you are happy with what you have and how you are able to use it. I for one am not. I like you have owned about the same time as you. The main reason why I bought was the certain quality Marriott was known for. I own a winter week in Palm Desert, where I am as we speak, and two weeks in Maui. When I purchased each location, they were the top property in the system and always planned to use them above all else. I have been to just about every US property I care to go to and have NO interest to travel abroad. I NEVER give up my Master Unit in PD, and will NEVER turn in my Maui units for Marriott to sell to someone for points.

Yesterday, for 2 rounds of golf I attended another points presentation and did everything in my power not to smack the FOOL who tried to convince me what I needed. That I should convert to points, get 2900 points in return for PD and 6200 for Maui. Mind you there is nothing comparable that I could get for those points, but I could buy more for the low price of, WAIT FOR IT, $10.94 cents per point.

Now since it takes 3,750 points to come to Palm Desert in the winter [for which I only get 2900 ], it would only cost the points buyer a little over $40,000 for that privilege. Now mind you, I only paid $16,500 back when I bought it and probably could not get $15,000 before commission if I sold it, someone will buy the required points from these thieves.

The latest news is that not only will the points buyer not be leaving Intervals Int., you will instead be getting a lifetime membership.

Frankly, the quality of the product has drastically diminished. The units are not properly maintained and the resort is not being cared for as in the past. Here, the USA today we were getting at our door, now are found at the main pool or the clubhouse. No delivery! The Spa's are all not working properly and the pools are less than clean.

Lastly, what they fail to tell folks who buy points is that they don't have units at all resorts that you could get directly from them. Thus, in Maui for example, they are no better than II for the older less expensive units, because there are none in their trust. If no one deposits their weeks for points they have none to give you. Under II it was a 50-1 proposition and under the point system it will be less. The reason for this is that for owners who don't convert, their deposits will go to II not Marriott.

Now as you look at this board, there are obviously SHILLS who log on and give you the corporate correct answer and try to convince folks that anything negative that happens is their fault and due to inadequate planning, and that the salesman are all ethical. I say they have NEVER met the salesman I talked to.

Lastly, for a little food for thought, the salesman yesterday told me that the IDEAL number of points was 6,200 or for you mathematically challenged folks roughly $71,000. Now, since we have already determined that at some point, your unused points will expire, what would happen each year to you if your average usage was less than what you bought. That's right, they simply go to unused points heaven.

If at some point you are tempted to buy more from them, I will sell mine for half the price.

here here. sorry to hear someone else was taken but at least i'm not alone. let's do a class action lawsuit!

I'm new to timeshare and this week when i was in Florida staying at Marriott property i purchased 6500 points with Marriott Vacation club. After reading this forum i'm not sure if i made the right decision and i'm still under 10 day cancellation period which i am considering. I was given which i think was a good offer.

Just curious anyone new to this program had any issues when booking.

thanks

You made a legitimate purchase of points. You are a new owner to a program that is very different from many who have owned Marriott timeshares for at least two years or longer.

You were sold points to stay at various resorts, use hotels, and to have access to tours and cruises, etc. Your 6500 points are fine.

However, many of thepeople that you will hear complaning on this site and others are owners within the weeks system. We did not have points like you do, but we stayed at a week at a time. We could not use a certain amount of days for a certain amount of points with Marriott.

The weeks owners, also called legacy owners, have the option of adding our week to a specific property to the points program if we would like to. We don't have to join, but we can add the points program as an option.

There are differences between the two programs and some of us old timeshare owners don't like the change. Some of us feel that eventually points owners like yourself will have advantages over getting into Marriott properties other than our own property and maybe in time advantages to our own properties.

With 6500 points you should be able to get into any of the Marriott properties in the system. Our only thoughts as older owners would be that you have paid over $65,000 to do what we once could do for less than $30,000 if you bought from Marriott and for less than $10,000 if you bought resale.

The discussions posted here would not apply to a new owner of points. This is just old folks fussing. :-)

Charles, I appreciate the calm way you present your comments. Ultimately, each prospective and existing owner will need to assess the benefits of the Marriott program and determine the best way, if any, to participate.

As legacy owners, enrollees in the Destinations program, and as point owners, we are quite happy. We appreciate the added flexibility and options of the new Destinations program and have not experienced any deterioration in our use. We will continue to enjoy great vacations and the flexibility of the new program - "No old folks fussing here."

One other thought, a big thank you should go to the Marriott Vacation reps on the phone who have proven to be knowledgeable and most helpful. I doubt that any other vacation program comes even close to this one.

You two are either very STUPID or the SHILLS I referred to. Anyone can buy a Legacy week on the Internet for a third of the price that Eric paid for his 6500 points @ $71,000, and still convert for $1495 rather than $695. BIB WOOP!

My one week at Desert Springs is a 2BR lock-off which cost 3750 points in high season. I paid $16,900 in 1994 and saw the price rise to over $30,000 by 2000. You can buy them all day for way less than I paid for it. Now over the past 17 years I have used the Master every year and deposited the lock-off about 10 times. Contrary to what Marriott told us about trading like for like, I have traded it for full units, mostly 2BR's, at Desert Ridge, Grand Vista, Custom House Boston, Williamsburg, Aruba, Hilton Head, Kawaii, and Maui.

On my Maui units, each time I have traded one, it was my 1BR for a 2BR at Ko Olina. Since I traded a Hawaii unit, even though I got another Hawaii unit, II gave me a BONUS week to use.

I think I will stay with my plan. Oh! Before you tell me I won't be able to do it in the future, I just got off the II web site where I made the trades for this Year. My lock off that I did not use last week got me a 2br in Los Vegas and one of the Maui's Was traded for a 2Br at Newport Coast.

Thank You! Please let me know when that future happens and what they tell you when you try to use your points for a Maui unit.

GET OUT WHILE YOU CAN! BUY A RESALE MARRIOTT WEEK OWNERSHIP OR JUST RENT WHEN YOU WANT TO FROM REDWEEK.COM.

Bobp223,

I can assure you that I am not STUPID and most certainly not a SHILL. However, I do know how to respond respectfully and objectively to comments of others. I guess I just happen to have benefitted from good breeding and a quality education that helps me to not spew forth ignorance.

I was looking at this from a different lens. First, we don't know what the original poster (OP) was looking for when he bought his ownership. He may have desired the flexibility of less than a week, the tours, cruises and exchanges to different properties instead of having a home resort. This is what he was sold. He was sold something totally different than you and I. That may be perfect for him. Who are we to say that it's wrong if that's what he wanted.

Can he buy resale? Absolutely. However, he may not want to go to the same resort every year? He may not want to be forced to use II and only have access to limited opportunities in their system for Marriott for weeks units. He may want to have access to any new resorts that Marriott places into the trust. He may want all that the points program has to offer him.

It is a legitimate program. You cannot debate that. Can he buy a unit resale for less? Yes, but if resales are limited in their use in the Marriott system. He will not be able to put it into the new points system because it is after the June 2010 date. Yes, he can use it to exchange with II, but that's it.

I acknowledged that he paid significantly more than what we did. I was being nice by saying over $65,000 knowing it was $10.94 per point. I thought they may have given him a break or something. He will not be able to get all that was offered to him with a resale. He has to make that decision for himself. There are lots of legacy owners that I have read on this board, TUG, and Timeshareforums that like the points program. Just because you may not wish to participate in it does not mean that it's not for everyone.

I still have not joined myself, but will because I believe that there are some advantages to it that I think I will be able to take advantage of within it. Also, I not only own Marriott but I also own another timeshare system that is points based and there are some great advantages that I like with that one. I love my Marriott, but I also love my points based system.

I would urge you to not be rude in your shortsightedness. I did not put you on blast because I am not wired that way. Let this person review their decision and see what works for them.

Thanks for all the replies.

I purchased this points based timeshare with regards to flexibility of not being locked to one place. I became interested in the point system when I first looked at Ritz point system and heard some good reviews from other users regarding ritz. But the ritz program was to expensive. When i heard the sales pitch at marriott last week in Florida i like the flexibility. My purchase of 6500 points gets me into premier status which includes the following benifits: • Reservations for 7 nights or longer may be made 13 months in advance to all 50+ Marriott Vacation Club Collection Resorts • Trade up to 65% of their Destination Trust points for Marriott Reward Points every year • The Ritz Carlton Destination Club (Select Luxury Club Residences) • 30% discount on villa rental (40% using Marriott Visa) • 3 years Gold Elite Marriott Rewards Status with additional purchase • Reserve Premier Sporting Events i.e. Super Bowl, The Masters, Kentucky Derby, US Open Tennis, Indy 500

The cost of the point were 9.1 per point with additional 500,000 marriott reward points and one free villa vacation.

the timeshare will be used for family vacation and i'm not considering an investment or plan to sell it. As i was told the points can be passed down to my kids.

Again thanks for all the replies.

I am certainly not a shill for Marriott and look with dismay at those who claim we are stupid. Some of us had the presentation, read the material, made a decision to buy, and are happy with what we bought. It seems the less intelligent ones would be those who bought and then constantly complain about the stupid decision they made. Others complain that the units are not maintained and then moan about increases in maintenance fees. Perhaps, some folks are just generally unhappy and need to complain.

Legacy owners have not been hurt by Destinations and can still participate as they did before and that is OK.

You are both correct. I should not have used the word stupid in my response. That aside, I have probably got more out of my ownership than most people who have ever bought a timeshare. Up until the points program, I have referred numerous friends, and many bought. Based on their desired usage, some have paid to convert. I won't!

Last year I attended an owners forum at Desert Springs. The owners came in mass and security had to be called. If there was a satisfied owner there he/she failed to raise their hand.

My main objection is centered on the fact that when I bought I was guaranteed that trades would be like for like. That said, why should I only get 2900 points for a deposit of my 2BR lock-off unit that they will charge 3750 points for? I OWN the unit, not THEM. Plus, I would not be able to use or trade the Lock-off they sold me.

In PD we have many Snowbird owners who own 4 or more weeks and split their time to make the stay double. They would no longer be able to do this without the purchase of significantly more points.

Lastly, I think the price they are charging new buyers is outrageous. One of the reasons they stopped selling them as units is that people found out the resale value was very low. In the presentation I had last week the salesman told me he converted ALL HIS UNITS to points. I said SHOW ME! He would not!

Do what you are happy with.

I think Legacy week owners are, in many respects, the "true winners" in the Destinations (Dest) program. We can use our weeks, rent them out, or trade thru Interval to achieve a higher value than by trading for Dest pts. I do sometimes deposit for Dest pts but "only when it works to my advantage" compared to the alternatives.

I suggest that we turn this forum into a forum on how to get the most value from our Legacy weeks - with or without Destinations.

One thought - I paid $8k for Plat Newport Coast weeks recently in the aftermarket. Those weeks would cost 4,700 Dest pts each (a $50k plus investment in Dest pts). There are good alternatives to buying Dest pts out there and Marriott does not seem to be exercising the right of first refusal. Aftermarket weeks are way undervalued. To me, the opportunity to buy a "substantially equivalent" product for these low prices is a great deal (and a real threat to Destinations).

Bob, I still don't understand why you are upset. First, you can still use II like you always have. You can deposit the way you always have and get like for like. You can be in the points program and not have to trade for points. You can continue to use II like you always have. Everything could be the same for you if you chose to join the DC program or not. You may want to use the DC points program if you were interested in going on a European cruise instead or staying at your resort for a particular year. I believe you are missing the point that you have a choice. It's not mandatory for you to use your ownership differently.

As for the snowbirds, the can still use their ownership as the always have. You don't use points if you are going to stay at your own resort. You would only use points if you wanted to stay at another Marriott property. Even then you don't have to use them then because you could still go the II. I fully intend to still use my timeshare by getting 2 weeks one with the studio and the other with the one bedroom. I won't need to use points to do that.

I believe you may be a little confused with what the DC points program allows you to do. That may be the cause of your concerns. Just from the statements you have written on the site it is obvious that you may need to review it a little further. You can still rent your week, you can still lock it off, you can still trade for Marriott Rewards Points, you can still get the maximum out of your resort like you always have. New people getting into the system don't have the options you have.

I hope this helps you. Please let us know if there is something that we can help you with or if there is something we are not seeing right.

I HAVE BEEN A MARRIOTT OWNER FOR 20 TRS OR MORE BUT THIS POINT PROGRAM IS A RIPOFF. NOT ONLY DO YOU NOT NEED TO SPEND THAT MUCH TO GO WHERE EVER YOU WANT TO, BUT IF YOU DON'T USE THAT AMOUNT OF POINTS WITHIN A TIME LIMIT, YOU LOSE THEM, NO CARRY OVER. WHERE DO YOU PRIMARILY WANT TO VACATION? ARUBA, HAWAII OR SOMEPLACE ELSE. SEND ME AN EMAIL AND I'LL MAKE SOME SUGGESTIONS FOR YOU AND SAVE YOU SOME GRIEF. jimnvi@aol.com

You do get to carry over your points for a year. You can also borrow from next year's points as well.

THE POINT IS THAT IF YOU CAN'T USE THE POINTS IE: YOU GET SICK, YOUR MOM DIES, WHATEVER, YOU LOSE THEM!! YOU HAVE PAID ALL THIS MONEY FOR NOTHING! YOU DID NOT BUY ANYTHING. YOU JUST GAVE THEM A LOT OF YOUR MONEY. NOT GOING TO POINTS, I WAS MUCH BETTER OFF JUST USING MY LEGACY OWNERSHIP WEEKS AS I ALWAYS HAVE FOR 20 YEARS. I STILL AM IN SHOCK. I CANNOT BELIEVE THIS IS LEGAL. IT CERTAINLY IS NOT ETHICAL TO HIDE THIS INFORMATION FROM PEOPLE TO GET THEM TO BUY SOMETHING THEY CANNOT USE.

Has anyone considered two very important ideas when it comes to Marriott as a company and the future of it, but more importantly, what effects it will have on both Legacy and/or trust owners?

First off, if we advice everyone to buy resales, then if effect we aren't increasing our availablily, as it's just the same inventory that we've always had access to, just with a different owner. Sure the buyer can save a bunch of money, but other than that, the Exchange pool didn't increase by the addition of move inventory.

Secondly, resales don't really make Marriott any extra money, and true, Marriott International had deep pockets, This new seperate company doesn't even come close.

We as owners should be more positive towards new Marriott owners, especially those that are pure trust owners. The more of them, the more chances we can snag that inventory with are election points.

And lastly, if we here and/or on tug, continue to put in our two cents which may not even apply to their vacation desires, we prevent Marriott Vacation Club from making as much profit as they could have which LEADS TO MY FEARS......I don't want to own a place which isn't making much since the money. We need people to keep buying the trust fonts in increse our availibily to use e points

Right before the swiich to Desinatons a gold 2bedrom as $2764 and a platinum st Lskedhoure was $44,000 for a platinum week. Same applyies for us. When we bout it was cheaper. What jappdcns later?

Charles, I agree with what you are saying. I did know that. I am against paying to join a program that will actually hurt the way I use MY particular ownership. They want to threaten owners into thinking that the only way one will be able to trade into other Marriott resorts is to join their points program. That will never happen as long as there are owners who don't join. That is precisely why they are now giving owners who join a LIFETIME membership in II. Last year they were telling people they were eliminating II.

I spent 30 years as a Tax Auditor detecting Tax Fraud by business owners and others for the government. This background gives me a little insight into detecting facts and lies. Sadly, if they had nothing to hide the story would not change.

As for the SNOWBIRDS, what I was referring to was the practice of some of them who have found a way to take advantage of the system. They book their weeks. Split their units and deposit their lock-off. Than through trades with II they trade them for master units. Thus, always stay in master units. All it costs them is the fees. If Marriott has their way the trades would not be available.

I guess I have always stood up for the underdog. I just don't want to be one. As I keep trying to say, points owners will still only be able to book weeks at certain resorts if the units are owned by destination members who deposit them. Test it, try to book a Maui unit in the original building for 3100 points. If they had ANY, they would not be trying to buy some back.

My hero is the guy who bought Newport Coast for $8,000, not the guy who after a points presentation pay $51,000 and gets a deed to the same resort and pays the same maintenance dues. You pick!

You hit on it G333. We call that a PONZI scheme!

Thank you all for changing the tone of this discussion! Instead of being combative, can we spend our time trying to help each other and maybe offer suggestions on how we can get the vacations we would like--i.e., how to get the most out of our Marriott ownership or membership?

I think the change I like the least is the fact that MVC is no long owned by Marriott International. This new entity just has the right to use the Marriott name. I sometimes feel like I have lost my parents in the middle of the night and have been adopted by total strangers--and no one even asked me if I wanted to be adopted! I know that's a bit strong, but I think you all get my point. Fact is that we all may have different preferrences in our vacations, so no one program will work for us all. For example, I suppose you could say that my husband and I are Marriott Reward Points junkies! We get 330,000 MRP every other year and have taken wonderful world trips. It's great for us, but not for the man who said he had no desire for foreign travel. If you love foreign travel the way we do, buying a Marriott property on the open market would do you little good because you would not have the option to trade for MRP every other year (just to give you one example--and other disadvantages have already been mentioned). I know that g333s has really helped me understand what it is we own, and that's why I'm suggesting we lay out what we would like to do--and then see if other members can help us find a way to make it happen through positive problem solving. So far the reps have been very helpful when I have called in for advice--so I want to share with you what I was told a couple of days ago when I called in to get some information on our possible trade for Destination points this year. We own three properties (Legacy) that currently net us exactly 6,500 points. I was told that we have until September 30th, 2012 to exchange for points (if that's what we decide to do) and, if we do make the exchange, our 6,500 points will not expire until December 31, 2013. However, if we can't use them by then, if we notify them by June 30, 2013, we can roll them over for an additional year. Is this what all of you have been told as well?

Finally, why don't we try to take a more rational tactic and push for postive changes in the program as it now exists--ones that could reasonably address our concerns? Based on my sense of what I see as inequities in the program I would request: 1) to increase the points we receive for our properties when we deposit as an incentive for us to deposit our weeks and exchange for points (a win for us and a win for Marriott as they do need our properties!), or 2) ask that our points not expire for 3 years?

Anyway, my two cents.